Well, I told the guy fine.. We will see how this turns out.. Went home and got my old 1990 full size blazer and hit a cart doing 30 and then drove over it a few times.. Left that thing in parking lot, my manager was pissed.. Luckily I was a good worker..

They called the police.. Nothing happened but me being banned from Target until that management no longer worked there..

Went in

Ok, so this guy wants them to fix his car because another customer (err...guest) or the wind pushed Target's cart into his car? This is stupid. This guy should just call his insurance company. If he's so particular about his car I'm sure he has insurance that covers things like this. People like this guy make me sick. They expect the world to give them something for nothing just because they have a little bad luck.

@Erwos: My local Target seems to only send someone out to collect carts when they are running on empty inside. By that time there is an ocean of red carts strewn throughout the parking lot. To the point where a large portion of parking spaces are unusable. You are saying there is no liability if they leave their property in hazardous places?

Plz to have spelling, grammar, and punctuation check? Thx.

yup, its not exactly valet service.

Of course they are, if it is in fact their property. Everyone has insurance like this. If someone is on someone else's property the owner is liable in NY. He's not on the property illegally if he works in the same complex.

I'm on target's side with this one. Unless a cart pusher or any other Target employee actually PUSHED the cart into his bumper, they are not liable. My dad was able to get Wal-Mart to pay for the body work that his car needed after the cart pushers rammed his beloved Caddy with a long line of carts. They were liable because it was a store employee that was at fault. Target provides cart corrals & instructs customers to put the carts in them, and it is not Target's fault that people are lazy cunts. Would it be Target's fault if someone threw a can of soup that they purchased at target at his car & dented it? No. This is no different.

That said- they do need to clean up the parking lot on a regular basis & get security cameras to catch the lazy pricks who cause shit like this to happen. Is it really THAT much work to walk 50 feet to the cart corral to avoid looking like an inconsiderate asshole? If I ever catch someone leaving a cart near MY car I will cremate them alive.

Target is free and clear here dude, unless you can tie them to the actual damage caused to your vehicle, i.e. an employee intentionally, or maybe even negligently, using the cart as a missile against your car.

Signs or warnings do not excuse negligence.

If Target had knowledge that there were excessive amounts of carts and that the wind was stronger than normal, than that would qualify as negligence.

Target has a duty to ensure that their carts are stored and collected in a reasonable manner.

It depends on your state, but I would file a small claims.

A sign or warning does not absolve a company from negligence, period.

The guy needs to file a collision claim through his insurance. If there's any liability on Target's part (and I don't think there is), his carrier can subrogate for it. I doubt they would for such a small claim.

Shopping cart crashes are just one of those crappy parts of life we have to deal with.

That law only applies to cars and only in certain scenarios, but I think that the idea that, if you're allowing people to use your property, you share responsibility for what they do with it is not an unreasonable concept.

Incedentally (I was reminded of this because of the non-responsibility signs mentioned at Target), I had the hardest time convincing the police to act on the noise ordinance because it was the garage's posted policy that their attendants will honk car horns as they drive around corners. I had a fun argument with a police officer about the implications of sign postage superseding the law.

@catastrophegirl: haha, I drove my mother to Aldi one time, never been there before. Boy, did I throw a FIT when you needed a quarter to take a cart!!

If some lazy a__ shopper can't be bothered to return the carts to the corral or store and leaves it in the middle of the parking lot to hit other cars, the store is not responsible.

How could a store be held responsible for the actions of their customers? This would be like me taking a crowbar from Lowe's and beating in someone's car. Would you still say that Lowe's is responsible for the damage because they didn't do enough to prevent it?

@Kjgmusic: if the hail was marked "Target", yes.

@Chris Stone: those are good points but it could also be said that Target knows their customers are lazy and will leave the carts in the parking lot , yet they do not care about it very much and take no action to correct it. If anything , the sign saying they aren't liable for damages proves what I just wrote.

@InfiniTrent: Actually, yes.

You probably don't have insurance that covers them as a driver and still let them use the car.

I have a car that I LOVE (Evolution VIII) and when I go to work or shopping, etc, I park it as far as I safely can to avoid such situations. I am responsible enough to know that carts roll around in the parking lot and people slam their doors into other people's cars all the time. I understand that a chance is being taken.

The way I solved this issue was to drive my other vehicle to work. My daily driver can take a beating and my feelings don't get hurt. The Evo stays at home, in the garage, pretty as can be.

@unajuaner: exactly, just because you put up a sign doesn't mean that it's a legal contract. ...not responsible for damage or loss my ass.

The number of carts in the parking lot usually exceeds the number the cart attendance can clear at a time. Cart attendants will gather the strays and put them in the corrals, and then bring them into the store.

Target isn't liable for their customers laziness. Every cart corral states that they are not liable. And you can't use the argument that it is on Targets property because target actually does not own the land they are on (the parking lot).

@starrion: this is just inane. I'd like to see pics of cars posted with responses and I bet the majority of the people who take Target's side or say you should just accept that your car will get damaged, drive trashy cars. They also probably leave carts in store parking lots on a regular basis.

@aybara: Bad logic..."god" didn't put sails on the carts.

That's a load of crap. Why would they be liable for lazy assholes that don't want to leave the cart where they are supposed to?

I don't think Target will do anything about this. If they provide areas for carts and customers fail to use them, should Target be liable? If an employee lost control of a cart and caused the damage, then I would say Target is responsible. If it's from the negligence of a customer, then, well, I don't think you can do anything. It would be like someone dinging your car with their door.

This is why I stopped worrying about dings on my car. I'm the ONLY one that pays for it, washes it, puts gas in it, etc. No one else gives a crap and it will be an uphill battle for the life of the car to keep it from getting popped. If you park in public lots, particularly in lots with cart corals, you're going to have to learn to deal. Or park the car in your garage and take the bus.

Wait, you're not one of the cool guys who parks over 2 spaces, are you?

@danno50: Agree, I was going to change the anology to a gun range but you explained this rather well.

@SabreDC: Yes,they could be liable because they could have put up a backstop.

What Target SHOULD do is put security cameras in the parking lots and record the license plates of the offenders -- as they are the direct cause of the accident.

Then again, no matter what Target does there will always be a fleet of people who will blame them (either for doing nothing, or for setting up Nazi surveillance, or for making the poor, helpless, customers take the fall for their own actions. The ultimate solution is to remove the carts from the store... but then you'd have people barking about there being no carts. It's a no-win situation for Target.

We should do OUR part and bark at people in parking lots who just leave their carts unattended once they're done with them. But, we're not going to do that because it's easier to blame big bad corporate america for everything while taking no personal action ourselves (unless that action involves a lawsuit, or complaining behind the safety of eMail/letters/lawyers).

Now that I think of it -- this would be the PERFECT time to come up with a new invention. How about, a shopping cart that auto-brakes when your hands come off the handle? Like how lawn mowers cut off when you release the safety bar. Hmmmm.... to the drawing boards.

@exkon: the signs on the cart corral indicate that Target knows there is a problem and refuses to do anything to solve it.

RECENTLY, AS I WAS WALKING TO MY CAR IN A SUPERMARKET PARKING LOT, A WOMAN WAS JUST FINISHING LOADING HER PACKAGES INTO HER TRUNK. TO MY AMAZEMENT, SHE THEY SHOVED THE CART DIRECTLY TOWARDS MY PARKED CAR. I BOLTED AHEAD AND WAS ABLE TO GRAB THE CART JUST BEFORE IT HIT MY CAR. I THEN TURNED AROUND AND SHOVED IT BACK AT THE WOMAN'S CAR, TELLING HER AT THE SAME TIME WHAT A TOTAL A-HOLE SHE WAS, AND WELCOME TO INSTANT KARMA.

BUT, HERE'S THE BEST PART, HER CAR WAS PARKED NEXT TO THE CART CARREL!!!

SaritaPony is absolutely correct.

In fact, I would consider it negligence on part of the store.

If they knew that it was windy that day and they knew there were loose carts in the parking lot, they had a duty to collect them.

What state did this happen in?

@Oranges w/ Cheese: Target should have an employee policing the parking lot to prevent such damages. They are aware there is a situation where their carts could cause property damage and their solution is to post a sign to discourage you from suing them.

I would have no problem with a jury giving this man a large settlement to send a wakeup call to these idiots.

The store cannot waive culpability from damages caused by their carts even if a sign is present saying parking is at your own risk. This is why some stores have gone to a higher-grade shopping cart with protective rubber bumpers which, for a little extra cost on the cart, save a lot of heartache and scratches in the parking lot. And if they can afford those magnetic lock wheels to prevent theft, they can afford that rubber bumper guard.

Best bet is to get an estimate, file an EECB reminding them of their duty, and take it to small claims if necessary.

@Erwos: I bet you wouldn't be saying this if it were your car that got hit.

If there's that much damage to the car, you can file a claim with your auto insurance, assuming you ponied up for the comp claim. They'll pursue Target, if in fact Target has legal liability in your state . . . .

(Used to have a boyfriend who took the initial claims for one of the big auto insurance carriers, and I distinctly remember the conversation about what kind of coverage applies to wind-blown shopping carts.)

@JohnnyP: they do that to get the carts back into the store after they've been abandoned in the parking lot.

@GreatCaesarsGhost: I thought this was the case too, but unfortunately it's not true. Last year my son was hit by a SUV, he said he was walking on the curb. The police said it was his fault, but the insurance company for the lady who hit him, said she was responsible and went ahead and took care of all the ER costs.

@Jeremy82465: no you would blame the one who hit the ball.

As you would also blame the person who sent the cart "flying". probably the same kid.

While it is target's property, sometimes somebody else can be at fault. Sometimes you may have to just take the hit also.

And, liability depends on whether they were negligent. If Target was negligent in clearing carts from its parking lot, then they're liable. If not, then they're not. If you want to figure out if they're liable, ask what a "reasonable" store does: a reasonable store sends somebody out periodically to clear carts from the parking lot and doesn't let them accumulate out there. If that Target has a parking lot which is usually littered with shopping carts, then they're probably being negligent. If, however, their parking lot is usually pretty tidy, then it was probably the negligence of another shopper (the "reasonable" shopper puts their cart away in the stall after loading their car.)

@levenhopper:

I see those signs at Wal Mart and think they are a joke.

Let's put this into perspective : how about if we all drop car insurance and put signs on our bumpers "I am not responsible for accidents" would that fly ? Of course not. In my opinion, signs like this , and the signs on the back of gravel trucks that say "stay back 300 feet from this truck" translate as "we know there is a problem but we're not going to do anything about it"

Its no different than when the wind blows your neighbors tree down on your car. They aren't responsible, its considered an "act of god." If a target employee pushed the cart into your car, it would be a different story. Its sucks big time, but thats the way it goes.

Well, except the jerk that left the cart outside the corral.

@levenhopper:
Those signs mean nothing. If you go an amusement park, look on the back of your ticket. There should be a little thing saying by purchasing the ticket you've waived your right to sue the park for anything that happens to you there.

It's there to make you think you can't sue them, when in fact, you can. That isn't a right you can just sign away.

Not having that machine you speak of doesn't amount to negligence.

You couldn't be more wrong.

The question is, what did target do wrong? If a gust of wind blew that cart into a car what did target do thats wrong? How was Target negligence?

Every time I go to a store If there is a stray cart nearby I take it back to the store since I am going that way anyway. Maybe everyone here could do the same and prevent some future damage. The car you save could just be your own.

But they don't. It's a hazard of parking lots. If you love your car, park far far away and walk. Safer for your car, healthy exercise for you.

Yes, I'm afraid I'm gonna go against the OP here. It's a losing battle.

I'm sorry to hear about your car there, the lot were I work has at least one (and up to seven at times) cart pushes working the lot from open to close. About half of us are pretty dedicated (especially considering that were almost minimum wage workers), I've never missed a day of work, I work hard and I have pushed and estimated 51,000 carts with my personal record of 127 carts pushed in an hour.

As a cart pusher here are some tips and words of advice.

-You may notice that most parking lots are on a slope going away from the store for drainage reasons, this is the way the carts roll when left on there own so park behind another car or car corral.

-If there is a far off lot that you can park in then do that.

-There are good cart days and bad ones, it depends on who is pushing carts, how busy the store is, car saturation

-The "manager" probably does not care about your problem and there is really nothing that they can do to help you. Also target does not do managers, there are the workers in the trenches, the "team leaders" who are slightly above the workers and tell them what to do and double as workers themselves they don't have much pull. then there are the college educated workers (like officers in the military) there people are the "execs" they can fire people and have a good amount of say in how every day things are done, then there is the STL, the store team lead, the guy or gal who has the final word in everything, they are not around much but they are the most powerful of all.

I sympathize with the OP in that the damage was completely out of his control... but just because it isn't his fault doesn't make it Target's fault.

I worked for Kroger during college and had a similar incident happen. I had a '96 Honda Accord EX (this was in 1997) that was my pride and joy. I parked in the specific area of the lot where all employees were required to park. Unfortunately, the lot was sloped and I parked at the bottom of the hill. My car was only a few months old when a cart rolled all the way down the lot and hit the front passenger door HARD!

I argued with the store manager for days about it. He refused to ante up until I threatened to resign. I was so disgusted that I was actually planning to quit. I didn't want to work for a company that cared so little about its employees.

The repair ended up costing $900+ (the front passenger door skin had to be replaced and painted to match perfectly). He paid my $500 insurance deductible and I let State Farm pick up the additional $400 or so.

In the five years I worked for Kroger, we never paid for any other cart damage...even from irate customers. The disclaimers posted on the cart corrals were our defense...

So by this guy's same logic, if someone buys something from Target and litters by throwing the bag out (ie not in a garbage bin) and the bag flys onto my car window blocking my view as I'm driving and causes an accident... should I march over to the closest Target and sue because it is their bag?

I have to side with Target here, unless there is proof that a Target employee shoved the cart at his car.

@catastrophegirl: Not likely about hiring another cart wrangler (or as they were called when I worked at Target, cart pushers).

When I worked there, we didn't have anyone scheduled to retrieve carts, except MAYBE at the holidays. Most of the time, they'd pick on one or two cashiers to go collect the carts.

Like the guy in the story, the Target I worked at shared a parking lot with a shopping center to the north, a bank to the west and a restaurant to the northwest with a main road on the south of the store. As a cashier told to go collect carts, it was not uncommon to have to trek across 4 sections of parking lot for half a dozen carts (and that's on a good day!).

As much as having the quarter deposit system would work great for major retailers, it's not possible with stores like the one where I worked, because someone could start shopping at Target, take the cart, and go to the next store, and the next and the next, always taking the cart with them and there it ends up on the other end of the lot.

Yes, people do come in and bring carts in, but as someone who used to do that, I can tell you MANY people will leave carts in the middle of the parking lot, thinking they won't move. We can't have people monitoring carts outside at all times, so though we do the best we can, if people are negligent and throw carts around, it IS their fault. You can't blame everything on the company. I sympathize with this guy, but you can't just target Target (yes, pun intended).

Um... no. Business Law is a fine start for limiting a business's liability but these classes only gloss over complex legal issues. Try a full Torts course. There is no strict liability for damage done by property based on ownership unless it is an animal or an dangerous activity, and you can not show intent for trespass to chattels so you are left with standard negligence charge - duty, breach, causation, damages. Causation will be your biggest hurdle since Target was neither the factual nor legal cause of the damage.

The OP is free to pursue small claims court and this may produce either a nuisance settlement or a default judgment (if Target fails to show) but if they contest it, you have a very slim chance of success.

Second of all, I might be more sympathetic with the OP if he had at least put some level of effort into his writing.

I have a terrible time with spelling and even I have to scoff at this ... it's not even gradeschool level.

Sorry, you assume the risk by parking in a parking lot. Try to park in no mans land next time, you may have to walk a mile but at least you're away from the carts.

Using their logic: you should destroy the exact number of shopping carts that equal the dollar damage to your car. If the carts aren't their responsibility then they shouldn't mind you setting a few of them on fire.

I boo hoo'd as this hit home for me =( I also have a Crossfire I am very anal about. To all the Crossfire haters, you wouldn't understand unless you drove one. They are FUN!

I always park in the WAY back and/or do my very best to find a "one-dinger" or when I'm very lucky a "no-dinger". I am NOT one of those asshats that takes up two parking spots slantways. My analness about my car is not anyone elses problem. I can't say what I'd do about this if it happened to me, though I can't imagine I'd say it's the fault of Target. I think it's just one of those things that happens and why I pay really good money for good insurance.

The quarter deposit system works extremely well, at least around here. Most customers return their carts, and the few left behind usually are snapped up by other shoppers (who then pocket the quarters). The difference is astounding.

@Rectilinear Propagation: I completely agree with you. Not sure why the owner was up at arms against Target when a clearly sane person would try to obtain video evidence of the parking lot at the time of the incident.

But then again, anyone who purchases a Chrysler Crossfire is quite certainly insane.

I mean, he just made a cart dent your Crossfire, this insane god cannot go unpunished!

Perhaps, you should find who sent the cart flying IN THE FIRST PLACE! Surely you don't think Target has evil robotic carts that lurk around of their own will. Perhaps one of your coworkers who knows you're anal with your car decided to do it.

@Dooley: I've seen places like that out east myself.

Where I live, the problem is partially solved by forcing people to install $1-$2 worth of coins into the cart for them to unlock it (in canada we have $1 and $2 coins). Lets face it, when you have to shove $2 into the cart to use it, most people will be returning it. And for those that don't, well, the chance at getting $2 for what amounts to 5 seconds of extra work, other people will gladly return the carts for them.

Just trying to think of how to satisfy the OP - if my car was in that lot and got hit more than once I would be looking for some satisfaction.

If that's your picture, I'm also sorry you own a Crossfire. I'm sure there's a joke in there somewhere, with the Crossfire being in the cross-hairs of...

And if the car was a piece of junk then instead ram it into the manager.

Who owns the parking lot? I know it's "shared" but that could mean your store owns it and rents it to Target, vice versa, or other things. This could be important, so find out.

So, after leaving the building, I can take my cart home with me since the store isn't responsible anymore????

The stores really can't control what customers do with the carriages when they're done with them. Some people take the time to put them into the corrals where they belong. Others push them away from their cars without a second thought as to where they roll. This is Target's fault?

I agree with an earlier poster, say goodbye to the convenience of having shopping carriages if the courts start awarding damages due to these kinds of things.

Ok, so people say Target is at fault. All Target has to do is have some lawyers skim through every state's laws governing these issues.

And if Target is NOT responsible, they can append signage stating State X's General Laws.

And if Target IS responsible, they can do all sorts of things, like charge a rental fee for carts. (Malls do it now for kiddie carts with CC machines even) Maybe set up a parking surcharge on all sales of 1 or 2%...

The parking lot would be considered Target property, along with the flying carts. If a cart somehow injured a person, I'm sure Target reps would be singing a different tune.

When I was a kid, the supermarkets (in New York) used to have barricates that were just slightly smaller than the shopping carts. You'd be able to walk through, but you couldn't take your shopping cart.

What you had to do was leave your groceries there, get your car, and pull up to the "loading zone" and load the groceries into your car.

Then you come home to wonder, "What happened to that six-pack of Corona I bought?"

I'm on the fence about this other than seriously shoppers, is it difficult to put your cart in a corral? I hate people who are capable of roaming a whole store and walking out to the parking lot but then suddenly are too lazy to walk 20 feet further to get their cart out of the way and not block a parking space or risk damaging someone else's car.

@RitaImbecillous:

Well Said.

A lot of you are pretty clueless as to legality of of this.

The signs they put up are to scare people from taking actions against them.

It's simple. They own the cart you own the car. Their cart hit your car they pay you dammages.

Simply take them to small claims court. Pretty simple why people are debating this issue is pretty stupid.

Some of you need to go to Business Law 101.

They provide people with the carts to facilitate their business. And it is their property, so they are responsible for what it does after their customer stops using it.

Plus it is an easily observed conclusion that unattended carts can damage cars in the parking lot. It is Targets responsibility to corral their carts.

Think of it this way folks, if you leave a loaded gun in the yard, and someone else picks it up and kills someone, you are going to jail for a long time. Property damage works the same way.

If they don't pay by choice, just sue em. The key here is that you have a witness (who is not a relative), make sure that you include that in your letters to Target.

@exconsumer9:
Why is it unreasonable? Allowing carts outside the store is a recent development. When I was a kid (the 80s), an attendant would take your cart out for you, and return the car to the store. Stores have cutback on this service to save money, and the consequence is property damage to innocent 3rd parties.

Further, the signs prove the stores know their negligent frugality is costing others. If I loan my car to someone knowing there's a good chance there going to commit a crime with it, I'm liable. Why is the stores liability for damage committed with their property waived in this case?

@ArgusRun: Point 4 is what I was thinking. Isn't there an employee parking lot? Complex=has obvious facilities. When I worked in a medical office, we parked with the patients, but we were told to go to the deepest part of the parking lot, where most of the patients didn't go.

I work at a high end grocery store.. and even though those people drive nice cars they're just as apt to leave the carts in the lot. I have seen women STRUGGLE trying to hike the cart up a median/hill... really?? Wouldn't it just be easier to walk the cart back to the store?????

I could go on for hours. And do me another favor - Walk the cart the extra foot and a half instead of just leaving them by the door. Cripes.

/rant

If someone shot you with a Smith & Wesson gun, would you sue the company or the person?

Seriously.

It might be Target's property, but it's only their fault if one of their workers was the one who threw the cart into your car.

@exconsumer9: You'd be surprised. I was at a Zellers in Montreal, Canada and they have concrete barriers right outside the main doors. You cannot get a cart through those barrier, you are not allowed to take the cart into the parking lot. You either carry everything to your car, or join the long line of cars waitting to pick up their stuff at the front of the store.

While the reason they did that is probably for a completely different reason (a metal shopping cart costs on the order of several hundred dollars for the store to order in, and they're a huge target for scrap metal) it shows that stores are perfectly willing to keep their shopping carts in their stores if some reason comes up that's convincing enough to do it.

It's hard to express an opinion without getting in to more of the particulars, but I wouldn't be particularly optimistic about recovering anything. Your best hope lies in that they may offer a minimal token settlement to get rid of the nuisance and the cost of defending the claim.

On the other hand, they likely also fear setting a precedent, which would cause a flood of similar litigation.

If the OP were my client, I would advise them to pursue it with Target corporate. If that fails, file the insurance claim and let it go. Not because it's right. But it's the most practical solution.

@Preyfar: Actually, comprehensive and collision coverage does cover acts of God. A hail storm is an act of god. If you car is parked under a tree in a tornado and said tornado managed to blow the tree over on top of your vehicle. They will cover the damage.

Its warranties that don't cover acts of God.

@BluePlastic:
Pedestrians always have the "right-of-way" over the entire parking lot, crosswalk or not. This is way you're not allowed to run them over even when they're walking down the middle of the lane.

@BluePlastic: As far as I know you're ALWAYS supposed to stop for foot traffic if they aren't already stopped for you. If you get hit by a car in a parking lot I'm pretty sure an officer can still write the driver a ticket for striking a pedestrian. That's about the only exception to the parking lot rule, you can hit anything but a pedestrian and not get a ticket for it.

In fact if someone hit you with their car on private property and tried to flee I'm pretty sure the cops would arrest the driver on some manner of assault charge. From aggravated assault to assault with a deadly weapon.

2) Realize most people are lazy and negligent and do not care about anyone else but themselves... do your best to protect your stuff accordingly.

3) Be persistent, polite and use all possible resources- but be prepared to receive no help - sadly, Target has the upper hand: they have something the OP wants (money for damages) and won't give it up unless made to do so.

Posting a sign stating that you aren't responsible for something does not legally relieve you of that responsibility.

I used to live in an apartment complex, where people would walk to the grocery store, and bring all their stuff back in the grocery carts, which would then be littered around the courtyard and the apartment parking lot. Is the grocery store responsible for the damage the carts might cause, after someone took it out without permission? It can't possibly be. In fact, they kept asking people not to take the carts, and would send someone over regularly to take them back.

It made it so hard to help people sometimes though. How do you explain to someone that you can't go into the milk cooler to find them a chocolate milk because that's against the rules? I mean most of the time each department would cross that line to some extent. No one from another department would dare run a meat saw, and for good reason. Customers understood that though.

That said, it's uncommon for these things to happen on their own, and if lazy people would simply return the carts to the cart coral, these things wouldn't happen at all.

Unless you have proof that the store doesn't take "reasonable measures" to prevent this sort of thing from happening, you won't have a case.

On a nice windy day, these things can travel probably 15-25 mph and build up a lot of momentum for putting a really nice dent in someone's door.

The difference between your bar analogy and Target is that if a drunk driver hits someone after consuming too much at a bar, the person they hit is not a party to the sign. The signs in the store parking lot tell people that Target isn't responsible, and they have a choice to park their and risk dings or not park their. Your hypothetical drunk driving victim has no such choice.

Personally, I've just come to accept that if I drive my truck places, it will pick up some dings. Although I didn't let my boss know that after he scraped the mirror on his BWM against the side of it 18 hours after I bought it. He ended up polishing out the mark it made...

If he's already talking about suing Target, they have NO reason to cooperate with him. No store is going to turn over their security tapes or even allow you to view them. Police requests are a different matter.

Bad Consumer!

I can understand older folks just leaving the cart, but this was not the majority of people who failed to return carts.

I remember one evening, and it was pre-holiday so the parking lot was really busy. I remember watching a cart roll into the the middle of the lane. No less than 10 people walked past in a 2 minute span and ignored it. I finally got out of my car and moved it. They didn't know I worked there either so it's not like they were waiting for me to move it. We were a union shop so I am surprised I never got in trouble when I moved carts to the corrals, as that was not my departments duty.

If the cart rolled off their lot and hit a car off their property are they still responsible?

@Oranges w/ Cheese: Thank you! If nobody saw a target employee cause the damage or, through obvious inaction, allow the damage to happen, then jason needs to be quiet and go buy some touch up paint.

If somebody borrows my car and crashes it into somebody else, should I get sued?

@TCTH: Unfortunately in today's understanding, the store WOULD BE responsible for juvenile delinquents in its parking lot if it didn't take actions to make them leave, it would be repsonsible for carts in the parking lots (even with signs) if they didn't provide the corrals to park them and have people picking them up all the time.

Not doing those things is what falls under the category of endangerment: knowing there is a problem and not doing anything to stop/prevent it.

w h 1st t pst

@krztov: Thats weird I saw that I was the only post when I submited.

for instance, you witness an employee push a cart into the car. In this case target would be entirely responsible.

Another instance, the lot security camera witnesses a car left unattended outside of a corral for an excessive amount of time that gets blown into the car...Target should have been doing more clean up sweeps. I don't think target would be 100% responsible for this damage, maybe close to 50% but I think they'd be found somewhat responsible.

The problem is proving it which this guy might have a problem with.

@RTFA_SteveDave: She should have persued. Crosswalks, signs, striping, and anything done on private property and not approved by the local traffic engineering department are not enforceable by law enforcement. She wouldn't have been ticketed, and only her insurance, should she report it, care about what happened.

And before anyone questions be about the legality of fire lanes, handicapped parking, or other similar situations on private property, those things ARE controlled by the permit office, and are necessary in order to gain a permit to build, and hold an permit to operate a business open to the public.

How do I know this? I work for the department that does this. Thats where my name comes from, by the way.

@lotussix: I agree 100%. Want to reduce the likelihood of your car being struck by a wayward shopping cart, park away from as many other people as possible.

Claiming Target is responsible for what a customer is doing with their shopping cart, is like claiming a rental car company is responsible for any damage a customer does with their cars. The person that did the damage is respsonsible, not the vehicle's owner.

There are places (~5 states I know of) where this is settled case law. However, it is not the case in all states. It is also very limited in that the store owner has to make a consistent good faith effort to prevent them from becoming a hazard. The good faith portion of this is also why many more stores started to put the cart corrals in place.

What bothers me though is that most people on here imediately jumped on Target's sign as proof they aren't liable. I find it slightly nervewracking that so many people are willing to take a sign put up by a coroporation as proof that said corporation bears no responsibility whatsoever.

I see people in the lot all day collecting carts and and emptying the cart holder spots.

This is just one of the crappy things that happens when you park in a parking lot. Welcome to the real world, dude.

If they have video of someone doing this, he might have a case. Otherwise, I'm afraid he might be SOL.

[www.imdb.com]

Just like how, logically, their security guards cannot chase you out of the doors. I should know, I used to be an Assets Protection officer at one in college.

This is far less a problem than having to retrieve carts from the state highway that bordered the grocery store I worked at during high school. The parking lot had a nice slope to the driveway onto the state highway. And it lacked any cart corrals. At least once a month an errant cart would drift down onto the state highway. Luckily that side of the highway was one way and the crown of the road made the carts roll back towards the curb/gutter out of the majority of the traffic. I always wanted to see a car peg a cart at 50mph but never got the satisfaction. I figured the store would have been liable until they finally installed a speed bump to keep the carts out of the highway...

(Grocery store history of cart fun:
We did have fun squashing the non-fitting carts (some from a defunct discount chain) which occasionally showed up with the store forklift. This kept the discount chain carts from jamming up our stores carts. Our store's manager was so cheap that he got two sizes of used carts for the store to use (the two odd sizes were from sister companies which rebranded)- meaning that we had three main sizes of carts along with the fourth sized rogue discount store carts...Try pushing that mess in the snow and slush in New Jersey in January... The manager was so cheap that he had a "cart repair guy" show up every year to patch together the used carts. Some had bad welds with silver spray paint over the welds, some had different sized front and rear wheels. It was a mess.

And we had a old lady die in her car one rainy winter day when I was pushing carts. I got out of that one since I was just a high school kid and thought she was just sleeping (which alot of people did while waiting for someone in the store.) The punchline was that the store refunded the money for the groceries she had bought to her children when they came to pick up the car after the EMTS/Firemen took her away to the hospital. And we restocked and resold the groceries. (hey it was cold out and the goods had only been in the car an hour or two.))

They also went on at great length about how they're not responsible, and they have signs up in the lot, blah blah blah.

His response to the manager was "Look, which do you think will be cheaper - cutting me a check for repairs, or having you spend an entire day in small claims court, and then having to cut me a check for repairs plus court costs?"

He had a check in about a week

That said, if you go to a Target, Wal-Mart, Kroger etc. and don't think your car is at risk of being hit by a cart, you are a fool.

In your example, how is the baby killed? Did a parent leave the cart unattended and the cart rolled away and flipped? Did someone put a baby in a cart designed for toddlers, and the baby got hurt? Did a parent lay a child down on the ground and a stray cart ran over the child? I do not believe Target would be responsible in those cases. Your reasoning is very flawed.

It picked up speed, heading right for a car.

I jumped into action...I grabbed a cart next to me, mounted the back, leaned over the handle, and pushed myself forth with the other leg. I shot down the hill, pushing...faster...faster...faster! Right on a collision course with the renegade cart and the defenseless car.

Literally five feet before it hit the car, I caught up, grabbed the other cart, and swung it out of the way. The cart was saved.

True Story.

As a shopping center landlord (and customer) let me address a few issues.

1) Incline. Many, many shopping centers have significan grade changes. Shopping carts can and do roll out of control with not active push from anybody. The more mountainous your region, the more likely you are to see it. Wind can also push a cart with enough force to cause minor damage.

2) Ownership of the lot. Target may not own their store. As this is part of a larger complex they may be a tenant. Furthermore, even if they own the store, they probably don't own the lot which makes is part of the Common Area, and under the control of the Landlord/ management company.

3)Responsibility for the cart. If the cart was not under employee control when it went flying into the poster's car, Target is not responsible.

4)I question where the OP was parked. Employee parking is designated either at the back of the shopping center or an outer lot. Or as the furthest spots from the center. This is done to save good, convienient spots for the customers. It also has the added bonus of being less trafficked and less likely to be damaged by other cars and wayward carts. If the employee was parked inappropriately, they can be reprimanded and if the behavior continues, the landlor can seek remedy from the tenant for violating their lease.

@hewhoroams: Actually I was thinking along the same lines that when he arrives for his shift at the other store, he should get himself some target carts and tip them over to corral his car. Then if the Target manager complains let him know that if the tipped carts are moved the he will consider Target to be liable for moving cart damage to his car...

Retail in general is like that though, you get to see the true underbelly of human nature. Ick.

If they can show that Target is negligent at retrieving carts from the parking lot or do not have places for shoppers to put the carts after they have taken them to the car then i can see taking action against target.

I don't see proof of that here.

I kinda feel sorry for the guy but then this is one reason i don't drive that nice of a car... things like this happen and there really isn't anyone to 'blame' it's just a part of life and the price of convenience of being able to use store carts to take stuff back to the car.

I have seen a system where you have to deposit a quarter into a thing on the cart to unhook it from a chain and you have to reattach it to another cart in order to get that quarter back. perhaps a system like this will enough people to take their carts back to the store more consistently (I'll say that the store that uses this system doesn't have many rouge carts in their parking lot)

Can you ask target to view security tapes to help identify the person who left the cart unattended? i would think they would be liable since they didn't return the cart to the proper location after use. Maybe you can only get that info once you have a police report.

on a side note, it's a pet peeve of mine to see these lazy people leave carts around the lot. I have seen people who are parked 2 spots away from those cart corals leave the cart in the empty spot next to them. it's so rude. I know a pathmark near me makes you put in a quarter each time you want to use a cart. You then get the quarter back once you return it back to the cart coral. it also dissuades people from stealing the cart and bringing them back to their house like people do in my apartment complex. I can potentially have my car hit by a cart from one of these idiots while parked in my own apartment complex across the street from the foodmart.

A lot of people are inconsiderate assholes, and some are vindictive assholes who get their jollies from damaging other people's property when no one is looking.

A lot of people are also very lazy. If one parks far from the store within the lot, there is a much smaller chance of other people bringing carts near the vehicle. It's an inconvenience to the car owner, but it should cut down the risk.

Here's a tip from my days working at the Brea mall: Park as far as possible from all the mouth-breathers.

And Overblown.com. ;)

An affect I lovingly called "Cart Sex" because you'd enter the store and there'd be 5 carts clumped together in the lot, and when you got back there'd be 20!

Rabbits!

@humphrmi: I don't know other states, but in my state there is case law that confirms Target's position. The signage is actually there as a courtesy reminder more than prevention of liability.

@Grant Benson: yes i would. the other kid was in the care of my neighber therfore his responsibility.

That's not to say that Target should be on the hook for it. I'm just saying that defense may not work.

@Jeremy82465: But wouldn't you sue the kid and his family? Not the store that sold the kid the baseball and bat? So, if Jason is in a sue happy mood, shouldn't he sue whoever let the cart roll into his car?

I'm all for NOT suing btw.

@Jeremy82465:

On a side note, I also understand that the legal system might even be on Targets side due to "acts of god" that ofter prevails over things like these, I just cant help feeling bad for the guy.

When the store says it's not responsible its because the insurance policy that insures the store does not protect against "acts of god" or "acts that could not have been foreseen." They claim that the wind, the incline of the pavement, etc. could only have been manipulated by forces beyond their control so they have no liability.

Also, most retail stores do not own the property they are on. Most of the time they rent from someone else and the parking lot is insured by that person. The store will attempt to have you go after them. However, to operate on that space the retailer must have proper insurance. This means you can go after them.

Here's how. First, whenever you come out to your vehicle and notice there is damage from a wayward cart immediately scan the surrounding parking lot. If you see clusters of carts all over get the cell phone out and start taking pictures. Retailers must have lot attendants (cart jockeys) that bring in carts. If they allowed these carts to build up then it can only be assumed that eventually one would hit and damage a car.

Second, ask to see the manager on duty (MOD) and you will most likely get a assistant manager. Explain the situation and the resolution you would like. The manager will consistently state that "it's not their problem." If you continue to get the run-around ask when the store manager will be in and return later. Before you leave make sure to fill out a damage report at the store and take pictures of the scene and the damage. This is important!

Third, when you see the store manager explain your situation and bring your pictures of carts all over the lot. Even bring some you snapped on another day showing carts all over. This usually embarrasses the store manager enough to realize there is no other way out than to cover it. Also, store managers can choose to have insurance cover something. They just pretend they cannot.

If the manager still denies your claim, then go to the customer care line. There are ways to get them to change their mind. Finally, if none of this works then go to the EECB or small claims court. I've seen all of these avenues work over the years.

Good luck and hope this helps!

"in sue", eh? No pun intended? :)

Ok Im catching some flak so let me fix my statement. Things I assumed from reading the letter:

They share a parking lot but he parks in front of his part of the complex not targets.

A person didnt push it since the other employee said he saw it slam into the car but didnt mention someone pushing.

Target understands wind (may it be strong or weak) + wheeled object = movement.

Target reclaimed their wandering cart.

All four of those things sound like some kind of liability to me.

I totally understand where Harlock is coming from, I would hate to have to lug a lot of bags out to my car the same as the next guy, but at the same time a guy who just happens to work next to a target should not be told "out of luck" everytime something target owns hits it.

1) Those people who steal carts or

2) Entitlement whores who are just too good to put away their own carts. "There are people to take care of that sort of thing dear, just leave it there." or

3) People who think the damage caused by carts are no big deal so why bother.

@Dethzilla:

As a guy that works in the insurance industry and sees these kind of claims on a daily basis, let me assure you that you're giving far too much credit to my (our? really?) industry. Not only does no such database exist, but sharing this sort of information would actually violate the terms of the ISO GL policy form (since the 1998 version anyway. I'm not sure about earlier ones). That's the form that at least serves as the basis for every General Liability policy, if not the actual form.

I've actually got evidence to the contrary sitting on my desk right now in the form of an individual filing several suits against various apartments managed by the same company. Of the 5 suits I've seen so far, 3 were settled with payments by 2 different companies, both of which anyone here would recognize.

More to the point. In most states if you put a sign on your house that says "Beware of Dog" and your dog bites someone you just screwed yourself. It would mean that you had advance knowledge that your dog was a danger. It doesn't matter if that person what trespassing on your property or not.

The same applies to the "Beware of Owner" FYI.

Maybe we could erect an alter to said Cart, as it must be certainly blessed to be able to fly unaided across a parking lot (uphill both ways) and manage to strike a car. The Immaculate Collusion.

Okay, I'm going to Confession now...

I wonder if you could keep the shopping cart. If Target isn't responsible, one could infer that they have legally abandoned the cart couldn't they? It left your property, you didn't retrieve it, so....?

I have a feeling if people just started keeping the carts that hit their vehicles they would change their tune. My truck got hit by one a few years ago in a supermarket lot - it was very windy that day and *no* effort had been done to corral the carts. I was talking on my phone when WHAM - t-boned in the drivers door. I got out and put it in the cart collection thing, but at a very high speed (full on run, actually).

This (and the fact that I have seen people purposely slam carts into people's cars) is the exact reason why I opted to pay an extra $10/mo for lifetime dent and ding repair, it pays for itself on the first use (I have had to use it 3 times in my one year of ownership due to door dings).

But on most occasions, the only reason a cart corral is "full" is because the carts aren't meshed or are sideways or the front is blocked by a carelessly placed cart. 2 moments of effort by whoever left the cart sitting there would've gotten it safely in the corral. 99% of the time.

/rant

I have seen someone push a cart across a parking lot though. Someone had left it right behind their car.

And very rarely are parking lots built on *such* an incline.

Neighbor boy Jimmy and neighbor boy Scott are playing baseball. Jimmy owns the ball, the bat and the gloves. Scott is clowning around, and throws the ball through your window.

Whose fault - the owner of the ball (Jimmy in this example, Target in the post), or the kid who threw it at your house (Scott in this example, unknown person in the post)?

@exkon:

I'm not suggesting he ignore them. I'm suggesting that the store, by virtue of owning the property and the cart is potentially liable for something. What, I don't know.

Similarly, if put a sign on my private sidewalk that says, "not responsible for slip and fall injuries due to icy conditions", does that absolve me of any legal responsibility if you fall and bust your head open? Doubtful.

I know for a fact that property and casualty insurers pay for these incidents, based on personal experience at a grocery store. One point in this case that is unclear is the state of the rest of the parking lot. If the corrals were overflowing or carts were all over, I think the injured party has a valid complaint.

I am not suggesting he go all lawsuit happy, but consider the potential that the store may be partially on the hook. He should probably also call his own insurance company - in the end they can go back at the store for reimbursement. My guess is if it is a small dollar amount a settlement could quickly be reached.

In the end, legal liability is up to judges and juries, not store managers.

@RichardSS:
Also it's a good idea not to bring a car you rather not have damaged to work.

What an excellent idea: I'll drive my reliable yet cosmetically damaged 'work car' to work, and I'll drive my 'nice car' everywhere else. Oh wait, I only have one car!

Not everyone can be like John McCain and have 13 cars.

@Scott Wishart: Yes, but Target didn't do the damage. Their property did while it was under the control of someone else. Take you analogy and change it to going to a driving range where you pay for a bucket of balls. Those balls are owned by the range. If someone broke a window, would the driving range as a company be liable?

Why don't people return carts to the corrals or to the stores?? I think we should have a whole post on this topic. I either leave the cart in the store (and carry my purchases to my car) or I return the cart to the store or corral before I drive away. On a side note, Mr. Sam does 99% of our grocery shopping.

Perhaps you could try parking a little farther away from Target or park and surround yourself with other peoples cars so the chances of it being hit are lower.

@Miguel Valdespino: The only problem with this is the Insurance Companies share a database that records all claims made with all the different companies. When multiple claims are made by the same people under similar circumstances... a flag is gone and an investigation is launched which produces a conviction in about 90% of the cases. I work for a large insurance company... I was pretty amazed when I found out about this system.

- the doofus who deliberately sent the cart into the void or
- the other doofus who unloaded the cart and drove away

In other words, the fact it was a Target cart is secondary. Primary is someone whose actions deliberately or through simple negligence damaged his vehicle.

If a crook breaks into a gun store and, as he's leaving, shoots a pedestrian for the heck of it, the gun store is not responsible for the actions of the crook.

I would say Target has a reasonable expectation that, in exchange for use of the cart, their customers will use them in a proper manner (convey goods, put them in the corral when done, etc.)

Weirdly, due to issues like this (and the tendency for teenagers to toss the carts into the river), several large stores locally have installed gates which prevent their carts from leaving the store. Period. If you have a big-ticket item, a store employee will use a dolly (via the employee exit) to help to your car.

Your analogy doesn't fit. The neighbors are responsible for the actions of their child, while Target isn't responsible for the actions of its customers who don't return their carts to the provided corrals.

If your neighbor's kid let another kid borrow his baseball, then that second kid hit it through your window, you wouldn't expect your neighbor to pay for it, would you?

@Squot: Yep, but the problem is, if the cart was blown by wind it would fall under the "acts of God" clause always buried beneath the fine print. He'd still be out of luck.

I used to collect the carts a very long time ago.

Any significant wind WILL turn the carts into hurtling monsters of paint-scrapage. I went out one night when we had some 40MPH wind gusts- Every single cart in B section turned and went speeding off into the section barrier. Five of them slammed an old car that had been parked for the day.

That said, the stores do post warnings that they aren't responsibile. They can't pay for every paint scrape because someone didn't put the cart in the corral.

Besides that, "because everyone I work with knows how particular I am about my car". If "Everyone knows", then methinks you might want to examine why you are so obsessive about your car. That's not a healthy mindset. Cars will be damaged in everyday usage. There will be shopping carts and parking lot rash. Life happens. It's a car.

If it was indeed the wind that slammed the cart into his bumper, Target could probably claim it was an act of God, which all insurance companies constantly invoke to get out of paying claims.

I sympathize with Jason, but I doubt he's got a claim. They posted a sign, he took a chance and lost.

Also, it looks like someone did it on purpose. I've had shopping carts hit my car under their own power and they don't leave a mark.

You need to re-examine your life and how you live it. Someone is trying to tell you something.

But seriously, I would have no idea whether or not the sign absolves Target of any responsibility. Maybe there is a security tape that shows what happened? As a general matter, I don't see why Target should necessarily be liable for the damage. Had there been a series of such incidents, and Target knew about it and did nothing, then maybe they are negligible. Otherwise, I would presume it was some asshole customer's fault for not putting their cart back properly-why should that be Target's responsibility?

I found from being a cart jock that unless *I* damaged a car in the moving of a cart, lawsuits just slid off the parent company. They cannot control how customer's treat carts in the lot. That is why they provide the 'corrals'.

The best invention on a cart is the big advertisement, or store logo piece on the front of the cart. It acts like a sail in any decent wind. Carts will sail across parking lots if not corralled properly. With that invention, cart damage becomes 'act of god' on most insurance policies.

I do agree that those signs on the trucks are complete BS.

Yeah, he might get away with this, but it also amounts to extortion. Should it backfire, he could end up in jail. He's free to protest on the sidewalk, perhaps at the driveways but not to block traffic. If he parks in the parking lot, he's subject to tow and the impound charges will add to his losses. Cut your losses. File and insurance claim and be done with it.

@Hamtronix:

A lot of people are acting like there are malicious cart pushers out there, vandalizing others' cars with their carts. Most of the time it's just a lazy person who left their cart in the middle of a parking space instead of walking the extra five feet to put it in the corral. Then the wind caught the cart, or it started to roll down an incline, and it just happens to head towards a car.

Maybe he should be seeking a government bailout instead.

Of course, Target should, but probably won't, compensate you for the inconvenience and your time.

There are many situations that WOULD make Target somewhat responsible. Including a lack of cart corrals and, in this case, possibly ignoring that their customers use (and leave carts in) other areas of the shopping center.

those carts aren't cheap either.

No but in your case you know who hit the ball though the window. If the neighbor just had a baseball setting on his porch and overnight it got thrown though your windshield is the owner of the house with the ball on the porch responsible? I don't think so.

I don't see anywhere that says target or a target employee threw the cart into the car, just that a cart hit his car and he wants target to pay for it. This seems silly to me.

I have to agree with Target that it isn't *their* fault, but there certainly is fault involved here. If a person caused the cart to hit your vehicle, they are at fault, not Target. Someone hit your car and left the scene. Call your insurance agent and file a hit-and-run vandalisation claim. Forget about Target, their carts, their policies, etc.

@Jeremy82465: I think a more accurate analogy would be: If a neighbor kid hit your baseball through my window, should you be responsible for the damages, or should the kid('s parents)?

The person who pushed the cart is the one responsible, but Target is easier to find. He's blaming the wrong person.

@levenhopper: If the stores were liable for damage caused by their carts then there would be this little ploy:
Jack and Jill drive to the store in separate cars.
Jack shoves a cart really hard into Jane's car, then leaves quickly.
Jane takes pictures and complains.
Jane takes car to John's Inflate-o-Matic Body Shop and gets a huge estimate.
Jane sues the store and wins lots of money.
Jane, Jack and John make out like bandits.
They go to another store.

If Jason wants his car fixed, he should contact his insurance company. Though given the picture he won't get much unless he has a really low deducatable.

Please. The store is supposed to be liable because some ass of a customer didn't user the designated giant metal cart storage areas? What do you want target to do? Hire a squad of 10-15 employees to patrol the parking lot and pick up any strays? Even then, this could still happen. I've worked for a grocery store, and wind can do amazing things to shoping carts.

Where is there proof that Target was actually responsible for the cart smashing into his car?

I am not sure how a cart can go "flying" through the parking lot.

All of the targets I have been to have large, flat parking lots. Unless his car was at the bottom of the upward sloping parking lot, I would have to disagree with the OP.

Even if someone pushed the cart as hard as they could, they would have to be pretty close as gravity and friction would slow it down.

If you were that particular about your car, you would be one of the people who park at the end of the lot where no one parks unless the store is packed.

@frodo_35: woohoo, you're not, and hopefully the banhammer is on its way.

@frodo_35: woo hoo 1st to reply. Wait a second...

Hrmm. Was the parking on an incline? Did wind send the cart "flying" across the lot? I'm just trying to ponder how fast the cart would have to be going (and at what angle) to dent a car bumper like that. I thought bumpers were more durable.

@WisconsinDadof2: I agree with that but if there's any negligence wouldn't that be on the part of whomever had the cart last?

A cart can't self-propel itself into a car. The signs are there to let you know they aren't responsible for the jackwads that toss carts left and right and ram them into your car.

@dtmoore: If you shove a sign in front of the manager's face beforehand, yes.

I don't see how they could deny responsibility. If you are playing golf and you drive your ball through some guy's bedroom window; or worsek, hit someone with a ball, it is most definitely your fault.

If it was a target employee, target is liable. If it was someone else, its their fault, not Target.

@harlock_JDS:

They suggest going to small claims court not a full blown million dollar lawsuit, so calm down. Also, if your neighboor's kid hit a baseball through your window would you accept "the ball left our house so its not our responsibility"?

So true, I think the way to solve this is to partition the parking lot with a small wall or curb divider. Have target pay for all the cart damages to the employees of the neighboring company and then split the bill on the construction of the wall/curb.

@frodo_35: lol. no, you weren't.

I work in retail just like this guy, and I know better not to park in high traffic areas of the parking lot. Also it's a good idea not to bring a car you rather not have damaged to work. I still occasionally find a new door dent on my car, but that ok I expect it to happen, which is why I bring the car I could car less if it gets another dent.

Most damage that occurs in parking lots are done by customers who could car less if they damage your car.

If stores where liable for all damage done to vehicles in their parking lot, fraud would in sue with people submitting false claims just to get damage on their vehicle fixed.

Why wouldn't it?

If someone had a sign that said "Beware Of Dog" on their property and you still went it how are they responsible if your dog bites you?

It's this kind of "blind" consumerism that makes good consumers look bad. There are warnings all over the place and its okay for a consumer to "ignore" them?

If you're going to hold the store responsible for every juvenile delinquent... or maybe one of your own friends or co-workers who are fed up with how anal you are about the car even... who kicks a cart into the side of your car, it appears to me that the only answer would be to eliminate carts altogether and go to the consumer packing his own stuff out to the car on his back.

have fun carrying your stuff to your car when that happens. Remember to thank sue happy jerks in crossfires and websites that advice people to take operations to court over any and everything.

I am usually in the "don't blame the victim" contigent.

However, in this case:
1) I know of no store parking lots where they don't have a sign claiming damage from carts is not their responsibility.

2) Unless you have video of a store employee losing control of cart during coralling (I've seen that happen) it is not the store's fault, especially:

3) If some thoughtless person emptied the cart and let it roll 200 feet down the hill to slam into your car.

PS Life is too short to worry if your car has a ding in it.

I don't believe that the mere presence of the sign absolves the store from any and all responsibility or liability. While it may not be directly their fault, there is a certain amount of negligince involved here. They likely have insurance for this kind of thing. I would escalate your complaint, be sure to document everything. IANAL so your mileage may vary......

Also be sure to take a few dated pictures of the carts all over the lot. Make sure to get pictures of the full cart returns. Alot of people don't give a crap and are to lazy to return the carts but as long as the store provides a place to return them you might be sol. If you can show a patern of full returns and carts all over the lot you will win in court and the manager will get in trouble with corprate to boot.

I think you're pretty much SOL on this one, unfortunately. If someone saw a Target employee trying to wrangle a cart and it ended up hitting your car, that might work.

Yeah, most places I shop, I see the signs posted they aren't liable for cart damage.

Just because you post a sign does not relieve you of all responsibility. (If that were the case, I'd write "not responsible for this debt" at the bottom of each credit card slip I sign)

Now, if an employee were to have accidentally damaged the vehicle by losing control of the carts, I'd say he has an argument.

After all, its not their fault that the people ignored the cart corrals (provided BY THEM so this doesn't happen) and decided to shove it at your car.

The only way the store is responsible if an actual employee was handling the carts.

I hope he really doesn't drive a crossfire....