1) 12/21/2008: Sioux City, SD -- The high temp was 0°F (about -18°C). (Data courtesy of weather.com: http://www.weather.com/weather/monthly/USSD0243?month=-1) The high in Rochester, NY on that same day was 33°F. Thirty-three degrees can make a whole heck of a lot of difference to someone standing outside.

2) It was a windy day. Wind chill on a moderately windy day (say, 18 mph) would have made that high temp feel more like -22°F and would have put the people at risk of frostbite within about 30 minutes. Mind you, this would be the wind chill during the -warmest- part of the day.

And, of course, those who start to suffer from hypothermia are generally unaware of when hypothermia is truly setting in.
See:
http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/hypothermia/DS00333

Heck, see Wikipedia, while you're at it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hypothermia

Those facts can sure get in the way of feeling all self-righteous, can't they?

Legal or not, it is unethical to ask people to endanger themselves for a few bucks, even if those people are desperate enough to say, "Sure, I'll do that for a dollar." As kabuk1 so eloquently said, a pole is far better at holding a sign than a person and can do so in the most inhospitable of conditions.

Oh, I know... I've done fed the trolls, what with my fancy talk of ethics. I'm sure there'll be plenty of ersatz Objectivists -all- over _this_.

Even if one were to take a post-critique view of ethics over, say, normative ethics, you'd still have to come to the conclusion -- enforceable or not -- that the choice presented to the desperate in this case was, ultimately, an unethical one. Just because you -can- keep costs down in a particular way doesn't mean you -should-. Heck, even China is learning -that- lesson, slowly but surely.

Folks should read "Nickle and Dimed" by Barbara Ehrenreich.

These sign-wavers in my area START at $12 an hour and I've seen some starting at $15 or more. And this city has ridiculously low wages (two people making $11 an hour mostly fulltime is above the median household income).

The weather's bad, that's for sure, but there's a lot worse they could be doing. If they're employing the homeless who may be stuck outside all day, why not give them a sign and wages for it? There aren't a lot of job opportunities for the homeless, at least there's this one for a few hours a day.

It's sad to say, but its true.

@LandruBek: And regulations about what you can and can't offer to people volunteering for medical or other experiments (and usually independent review of what you plan to do). Flawed system, but the rationale is the same: people desperate for money will do things that endanger their health, and society should not exploit that to the limit.

They are hired/recruited from homeless shelters in the area. They are paid $30-$40 a day to start, for a 5-6 hour workday, paid daily. They get their corner and signs, and stand for the duration of the shift, no matter the weather.

The difficulties with this are that when you are standing mostly still, you cannot move to generate warmth, so you quickly get cold. The people I talk with wear several layers of clothing in Phoenix, when the temps are in the 40s-60s, and they are cold. If you see one of these people waving frantically, they aren't just trying to draw attention to the store, they're trying to stay warm.

I'm very disturbed by the many people on here whose philosophy of work is "a job at all costs." That philo has already led to considerable decline in wages, work and living standards in the U.S. over the past 30 years, and with the current economic circumstances, it is possible things will get much worse.

Many times when people "agree" to a job, they are agreeing to a situation where they have not been told many of the important details of the job, and they are frequently lied to. How many of you have taken a job only to find out after the fact that the job was much different than the job you agreed to?

And if anything its their own guilty consciences preferring to pretend that the slaves at the bottom end of their society's rather merciless system 'have a choice.'

Well, the poor of America do have a choice: starve, or do whatever those fractionally higher on the power-ladder want - which includes freezing to death in order to advertise a store.

This is the reality of the USA. Forget Hollywood imagery of rags to riches - and 'choice.'

This is the shittiest of all jobs. Not only does it provide ungainful, degrading employment, it increases visual pollution, and benefits mostly unsavory companies (liquidators, developers, dating sites, free cell phones etc..)

I feel bad for the people who have been reduced to this, and am disgusted that companies would pay someone to do this.

@gyroball: $40 in cash under the table for someone living in a homeless shelter isn't chump change. It is close to minimum wage's take home pay I suspect - which when you are homeless is very hard to get employed by anywhere paying that much. You aren't doing anything illegal or dangerous like unregulated construction.

I"m not saying it is ok to put people out there in freezing weather but it isn't horrible overall during decent weather.

If the outraged person in the story wanted to do something positive, I think they needed to let go of the idea of interfering with the job itself but instead offer them gloves, socks, hats, feet warmers, chairs, coffee or even just a good lunch. Anything to make their load lighter.

It seems that many people are really missing the point. These are desperate people who are being paid to stand oustide in weather where it isn't SAFE to stand outside. These workers were at real risk for frostbite or death. How can anyone say that's a reasonable risk for someone to take -- even "voluntarily."

If these were dogs, chained to a pole outside in those temperatures, the dogs would be confiscated, and the owners would be charged with a criminal offense.

That's great. Take someone who is off their ass trying to earn money, and pluck them up and just give them cash. It is no wonder our country is infested with people who want something for nothing.

I really like the sign twirlers for little caeser's pizza, man they know how to play air guitar on those signs.

Well of course I would rather the homeless find a job. That is not the issue as I am sure everyone here wants to see them work and make a living so they are no longer a burden on society.

The issue is that these contractors are taking advantage of desperate people. $40 a day to fight for your life on some Artic subzero street corner is not a job. Its bull shit.

@Rectilinear Propagation: Actually, that is exactly what it does. They hired a contractor because they don't want their own people to do it. That shows that they DO have compassion for their people. If they can find people who WANT to get paid to do it, then how does that make it wrong for them to do so?

And I am still "spouting off" about how the workers were doing this voluntarily.

However I still see it as a "charitable" thing, since a pole with a sign would do the job just as well.

@calquist: You should calm down there a bit. The word "career" was obviously used in a sarcastic way. (At least I thought it was, but for you, next time I will break out the Crayons to draw that picture for you)

And YES the title matters. When the title says "Linen N Things WORKERS FORCED to Stand in Sub-Zero Weather", the statement is false for 2 reasons. 1. They are NOT Linen N Things workers. 2. Nobody can claim that they were "forced" to do anything. They CHOSE to get paid to do it. Try as you may, you can't refute that.

Your snide comment "Gosh, if a LAT employee was exploited... that would be terrible, but a contractor's employee: big deal!" is actually dead on in this case. A LAT employee showing up for work and being told they have to stand outside in subzero weather would be messed up. That probably wasn't in their job description; where as, in the case of the "contractor" it is basically their ENTIRE job description.

Darn them for giving jobs to the homeless! To heck with them earning an honest living, and where they were often outside ANYWAY.

I understand frostbite can occur in minutes. But if you are prepared to do the job, you know what the job entails. I doubt some guy in shorts is volunteering to do the job of standing outside, then is "surprised" that it's cold. If I was doing this job, I know what out of my wardrobe I would wear to keep the wind out, which is what really gets you cold. I also know some "cheats" you can use to take everyday items and make them cold weather gear. When we would have snowball fights at the grocery store I worked at, most people would stop after awhile b/c their gloves got wet and then their hands got cold. I would slip a pair of rubber gloves under my normal gloves, and my hands wouldn't get wet. Surprisingly, the worst thing you can do is be too warm. Once you break a sweat, it works against you in the cold weather. As your clothes get wet, they wick the heat away from your body very quickly, and you can't stop it.

@glycolized: In my town there's a city ordinance against these signs. But if a business is in the big retail mall area of town the Code Enforcement Department refuses to enforce the ordinance because they don't want to make the retailers mad and they want as much advertising as possible for tax revenue.

In this part of the country it's usually Hispanic males. I report it every holiday they have sales and nothing ever gets done.

I have no problem with hiring sign holders. It's annoying to a lot of people. And it doesn't really work that well in many people's opinion. It's also a pretty crappy job.

But it's usually not a dangerous job. As long as people stay back far enough from the street, it's no more risky then walking down the sidewalk. In 70 degree weather, I really have no issue with this form of "work."

But when it's below zero outside, and you can get frostbite in a matter of minutes, then it's exploitation. And it's not right.

People who have to work in those conditions should always have ample breaks and access to a warm environment to take those breaks in. I'm quite sure these people were not offered breaks, much less a warm place to take those breaks in. If I'm wrong, then I'm wrong. But I don't believe I am.

And don't you DARE try to assume I thought bum fights were ok or anything like that. Never put words in my mouth or head.

And exploitation is not ok, but we all exploit people regardless of whether it is direct or indirect.

Furthermore, you'd probably not have a problem with migrant workers getting sub-minimum wage and working in horrible conditions because they "choose" that job.

It's just not true. We as a society do not believe it is okay to take someone in a desperate situation and exploit that situation for our own benefit, regardless of whether it may put that person in danger.

These people are people. That's what the "good Samaritan" realized and others seemed to have missed. If I offered a homeless guy 40 bucks to jump in front of a car, people would be outraged. But for some reason, offering someone 40 bucks to stand in equally life-threatening cold weather for 6 hours is okay? I don't think so.

I commend the person who got these people out of the cold. Forty bucks isn't worth lost fingers or toes, or a case of hypothermia. This is pure exploitation, and it's not okay.

They *MAY* start because of that, but one day of work would turn them off it. It truly is a nasty business that takes a hard toll on the body. Much less the soul.

Women who like sex do it for free and pick their partners. No matter how into you she seems, she doesn't like it or you. It's only for cash. Anything else is a convenient fantasy.

Amen brother! I couldn't have said it better my self.

I'd like some rich silver foot in mouth exec to switch places with me for a month. Then he can "chose" to be rich and show everyone how easy it is.

While I dine with kings and queens, he can just scrape by doing shit work and eat pork and beans.,

@kabuk1: It's to get around the laws/ordinances that say you can't just put up a sign in the area they want these signs at. They can't get in trouble for posting a sign if they don't actually post it and no one's going to pass a law making it illegal to loiter on the side of the road so they have people hold the signs.

@Mr.SithNinja: Contracting out work does not absolve Linens N Things of responsibility.

@Skybolt: I think they just don't care. Someone got something for 'free' and it's "OMGsounfair!".

Did you read any of the other comments on this article before posting? This isn't a career.. this is a "If I don't hold this sign, my family won't eat tonight".

And what does the title actually matter? Was your time wasted because you wanted to read about Linens and Things employees? 'Gosh, if a LAT employee was exploited... that would be terrible, but a contractor's employee: big deal!'

I'd say that's taking advantage of an unfortunate situation

Having actually BEEN desperate enough to take a shit job for peanuts, I am appalled at all the elitists here, blaming the sign-holders for being poor enough to take the job. What is wrong with all of you? Just because you've been pampered from birth & have the option of just "being a bank executive" and "splitting $2B in taxpayer money in bonuses" doesn't mean we all do. You cant just CHOOSE to be rich. I've been CHOOSING to be rich my whole life but it ain't happened yet. Not all of us have connections or the money to go to college, so some of us have to take shit jobs so we can afford to eat.

I sincerely hope that all of you elitist snobs lose your mansions & everything you own. I hope you have to stay in a homeless shelter & work minimum wage jobs out in the freezing cold or the blistering heat just to avoid starving to death. Then, you can show us all how easy it is to just GET RICH again! Then we can all follow your example & we'll ALL be rich!!!

Gimme a @#$%ing break.

Me, I have no respect for the tactics - using loopholes to get away with obnoxious advertising.

It's not sub-zero here, but it's close. We were also wondering what those guys make.. We guessed $50.

Garden City, NY.

While some prostitution is because of poverty and desperation, that usually occurs in the illegal prostitution rings. (These rings wouldn't exist if prostitution was legal, but that's a completely different argument.)

Bumfights = just plain funny. :P

Happy holidays!

I'm a Sioux Falls resident, and I can tell you that "insulating themselves for a day" wasn't going to cut it yesterday - there were sustained 15 MPH winds and below-zero temperatures the entire day (the high was 0). Linens-N-Things is on a wide street, so there wouldn't have been much cover from the wind once they were away from the building.

So, with these differences, you cannot really compare coal mining to standing out on the corner holding a sign. The differences in risks are just too different. Where one might just need cold weather gear to stand out holding these signs, there are many, many things mines have to do to ensure the safety of the workers. The very magnitude of these differences make the two incomparable. Especially since the sign holders are likely those who are not given proper safety gear in order to keep from freezing, while those in the mines and other occupations are given the gear and have the regulations aimed at keeping them as safe as possible.

You mean to tell me that if some stranger came up to you and said they would pay your wages for the day if they came with you, you would say no?

You wouldn't tell them to mind their own business?

I just see this more as a "look at how great I am" story because some busy-body interfered for no other reason than because they could. Oh well, they got their 15 minutes.

@bobpence: Independent contractors can be paid anything.

Now, were they really independent contractors? The law is clear on independent contractors. If they have the right to set the hours you must be at work and the conditions under which you work (8-5 on this street corner, take 15-minute breaks every four hours, for example), if you cannot choose how to do the job and how long it will take, if you bring nothing to the job but yourself and all materials for the job are provided by the hirer, if you are trained by the hirer to do the job in question, then YOU ARE AN EMPLOYEE!! You are an employee even if your employer is a contractor.

And don't even get me started on these "independent contractors". I live in a part of the country where that crap is a way of life and if you have even the slightest inkling of the meaning of the word "exploitation", you'll have some idea of the type of person it takes to become one.

Those workers were simply doing the best they could under some horrendous circumstances beyond their control. Read up on America's new labor contractor industry, and you'll have no trouble knowing who the "bad guy" is here.

I think it's great when somebody stops and shows compassion toward his fellow man. You should be applauded.

But let's not demonize the business. I think offering somebody a chance to work for his own keep, is every bit as noble and more beneficial to those disadvantaged in the long run.

Loading groceries in cleveland winters at the supermarket in high-school: 15 on, 15 off.

Of course, the first job was with a huge company with a serious commitment to safety, the other was with a unionized store, and both were employing mostly white middle class kids.

Get used to it. We will become a band of vultures picking at the carcass of our once proud nation.

Brother can you spare a dime.

I get the distinct feeling that these "independent contractors" wouldn't pass the smell test with the IRS, meaning they should really be treated as employees. That means you, the taxpayer, and the workers are cheated out of:

* Proper tax withholding
* Social Security tax
* Unemployment coverage
* Workers compensation coverage
* Required breaks

Just because you say they are contractors doesn't make them contractors. It's usually a way for someone to get the help without paying the full cost.

I saw a couple nightclub doorguys standing outside all night Saturday when I went out - but I didn't rescue them either...

Uh, sorry, but "Hey, they can wrap themselves in garbage and stay warm, so everything's fine" seems to be what you're putting forward here. Any society with as much wealth as ours that allows situations where citizens have to wrap themselves in refuse to survive is fundamentally flawed.

@nataku83: really hate it when companies use the "independent contractor" excuse to dismiss any kind of issue that could reflect poorly on them

The worst ones are the contractors for this firm called "USA" (IIRC) in their expansion plans in Mesopotamia.

Yes, it is exploitation if the mining company fails to provide its workers with adequate safety gear. We understand that some jobs are dangerous. In your example, coal mines sometimes collapse. It happens. We know that. But if it collapses because the mining company is too cheap to properly brace as they dig, or if the miners get black lung disease because the mining company was too cheap to give them proper protective equipment, then it's exploitation.

In this case, it's exploitation because these guys are going out looking for the most desperate members of society and forcing them to do degrading and dangerous work if they want a few coppers at the end of the day. The employer doesn't give a damn if the guy gets frostbite or freezes to death, and isn't willing to pay them an appropriate wage to compensate, nor I would wager did the employer provide the cold weather gear necessary to stand outside in such conditions for an extended period of time. And before you point out that it's the responsibility of the independent contractor to provide his own protective gear, I will point out that $40 a day won't get you a decent pea coat, much less the type of cold weather gear necessary to handle the kinds of temperatures we're seeing right now.

This is upper class exploitation of the working class, plain and simple. I would say it's Dickensian, but at least Bob Cratchit was able to do his work indoors, out of the wind.

I honestly believe that the title should be changed. It flat out says that they were Linen N Things employees when they were in fact not. But I guess that you need Linen and Things in the title to trick people into reading the article. If you substitute 'Linens N Things Workers' with 'a couple of sign holders' nobody would read it, because nobody gives a crap about those people. Sign holders know that they HAVE TO work outside. They chose that job. I know if I had a job that REQUIRED outdoor work, I would take note of the local climate and season, and decide if I want to pursue that career based on that info. It isn't like the title of the article leads you to believe, where you have some cashier show up for work and their manager gives them a sign and said "Get out there!" The sign holders knew what they were signing up for.

Nice Bait-n-Switch Consumerist.

saw the same thing here in Indy yesterday in below zero windchill's.

What are the other work conditions? How many hours are they supposed to stand their with the signs? Do they get breaks? Are those conditions lawful?

On second thought, since this is Sioux Falls, that's pretty bad.

My acid test on this would be "Are any other laborers outside working right now?"

If yes, then these folks might have just needed more clothes/food to stay warm. But I sort of doubt that late December is prime landscaping and construction season in that area.

@Drew5764: I was thinking something similar. People actually pay (ticket, parking, food) to sit in the cold weather just to watch a football game so there's nothing wrong with someone being paid to hold a sign in the same weather. Of course if I was holding a sign then i'd gladly come out of the cold if someone offered to pay me what I would've made for the next 5 hours.

As for everyone who said something like, "rescue me I have to start my car and it's only 70 degrees in my office," you just don't get it. Some people really, actually have it worse than you -- and it's not because you're smarter, or because you work harder, or because you're a better or tougher person. It's luck and randomness. Any of us could end up in that situation, and if we did we'd be pretty happy if someone helped us out instead if saying I got mine, get yours, not my problem.

Good lord, was $40 bucks for the whole day, sub-minimum wage? Six hours? Four? The sign holders near me -- in good weather -- are working way too hard if they're getting less than $15 per hour, because they're not just wood post replacements, they do tricks and acrobatics with the signs.

What rules exist vis-a-vis workers -- independent or employees -- and weather? Do security guards making rounds have an exposure time limit?

and had it been me calling the liquidator, i wouldn't have said 'i'm a concerned citizen' - i would have said 'i'm a potential customer'

@JulesNoctambule:

How so? Both groups of people need money to survive. Both groups of people take risky jobs for not a lot of money to survive.

Come up with a better analogy instead of a two-word criticism of mine.

@NefariousNewt:

They aren't allowed to plant the signs in the gound. Most cities have ordinances against placing temporary signs in the ground, especially on city property. Otherwise every business on earth would plant a flippin' sign on street corners for free advertising. The "solution" is to have a person hold a sign, which to my knowledge, is not illegal.

@wagenejm: People who are staying in shelters do not have access to "warmer clothing." It's possible that the "rescuer" could have bought them cheap, but warm jackets, hats, gloves, and socks for less than 40 dollars (and they would have had warm clothing once they left work, too), but there are even more considerations.

People in shelters are disproportionately likely to be ill-fed, sick, scrawny, and otherwise more susceptible to severe cold. If you're going to stand people out in the bitter cold, you should choose the fat, healthy, strong workers, not the miserable creatures from the local flophouse.

Wait, so he took people from a shelter who were working for a wage, stopped them from working, and gave them a handout for their "opportunity cost"?

Sounds like a pretty sweet deal. I wish we had more busybodies like that around here!

Because the pay doesn't adequately cover the risks but the person needs the pay so they can't really say no.

@JulesNoctambule:

So is it exploitation when people work in coal mines, or other dangerous professions? In some places a coal mine is your only option if you want make a living wage so people take those dangerous jobs.

It's like offering a bottle of muddy nasty water to man who hasn't had anything to drink for days. Odds are he's going to drink it.

Wealthy people have free will. The poor have to survive.

That said, other than the safety issue due to the temperature, I don't get your objetion to the business. Folks need work and money. The company needs folks to hold signs. They agree on a deal.

I see nothing exploitive about that in and of itself.

I too am in North Jersey.
See these sign holder guys on Route 46 and sometimes near the Willowbrook Mall.

As for these guys standing out there...hey a job's a job.
I had the job of wearing a stupid chicken costume for a restaurant that was opening years ago.

Sarcasm aside, there has to be minimum standard for workplace safety.

However many of the respinses in this thread have acted as if being paid to hold a sign was exploitation in itself. Its a low level job for sure, but like all job its an arrangement between the worker and the employer and both agree to the terms.

Now, if the folks look endangered due to temperature, get on the phone and give let the employer know that you are calling OHSA unless the folks are given better clothing for the temperature.

But the job, in itself, isn't exploitive.

I hate this business of having people standing around holding signs. What, exactly is the point of getting people desperate for cash to stand arounf for hours in all sorts of weather to hold up a sign? They can't plant the sign in the ground?

This is one of those bullshit businesses, where some guy thinks he's "doing them a favor" by giving them work I wouldn't even want animals to do, paying them a tiny wage. Maybe they did sign up for this, but that doesn't mean that people can be treated as cattle.

the the workers were out in the cold blizzard like conditions, standing on medians in a dangerous intersection

cant help but to feel bad :(

I am from Central NJ, and live near Route 9. Route 9 is "plagued" with sign holders, to the point where local governments are passing laws to stop this practice. You can tell the "veteran" workers by their ability to be asleep and hold the sign up at the same time. These people aren't "forced". They work willingly, and know what the job is, and dress accordingly. This really sounds like someone who thinks they know "better" than the people who "are obviously being taken advantage of", which they aren't. Sorry if I stepped on anyones toes.

The real key to this story is revealed in this line:

After that exchange, the resident says he took the workers to Union Gospel Mission in downtown Sioux Falls, a place where the workers had reportedly been staying for food and shelter.

I'm not into that whole "class warfare" thing, but this is a clear example of greedy people exploiting the powerless.

@OmniZero: It says the workers were staying at the shelter, which means they probably have very limited employment options. It is an employer's responsibility to make sure that employees have a safe work environment. That's why OSHA exists. Sure, they could have gone inside or walked off the job, but they probably really needed that $40. It was 4F here on Saturday and -3 Sunday. I couldn't be outside for more than five minutes without feeling pain in every exposed inch of skin (like my nose and eyes). Cold weather is dangerous and, at a certain point, no amount of bundling up - unless you have some serious outdoor gear, which I doubt these people have -is going to help.

i've done the sign-holding gig before, for a jo-ann fabrics store that was moving (switching from traditional store to superstore). i did it in the summer, though, so i wasn't really at any risk. except the risk of dying of boredom, i guess.

it's true that the people who signed on to do the job agreed to stand out there in the cold, but they must really be hurting for money to willingly do that. it makes one think the contractor is kind of exploiting these people because he knows no one else will do it.

I'd gladly pay a Giant's Stadium security agent (who stands outside rain (snow!) or shine to head inside. Maybe then I could take the first row unoccupied seats, for a lot cheaper than they'd be if I'd purchased the tickets in the first place.

Perhaps all they needed were warmer clothing rather than a rescue?

So these people were voluntarilly doing their job by standing outside and this guy decides he is going to rescue them AND pay their daily wage? Can he pay my wage today because it's -16F here in Minnesota and I am in putting myself in danger by going out to start my car this morning. So now there is zero chance of these people ever working for this contractor again since they all essentially walked off the job.

This woman may be a concerned citizen, but no one put a gun to the "hired contractors" head and made him hold the sign.

Every day I hate those Linens N Things liquidators a little more.

I've seen sign holders out in Oswego, NY for a furniture store before in VERY cold weather. Why I never thought they were at risk was the giant signs on the poles they were holding blocked their whole body from wind.