@Jnetty: what you said...

I've had DirecTV for years and have never been charged for installation - and I've moved twice. I do have a habit of making them deliver what is promised...

But 'professional' installation has always meant- installed by someone who's paid to do it. Otherwise, you can get up on a ladder install the dish yourself.

The demeanor of the installer does not have to be professional.

Also our last phone call to customer service because couldn't order movies with our remote resulted in talking to an Indian(from India) who we could not understand. Not satisfied with results of call and hopefully solved that problem myself.

In 2 yrs will talk to DISH and also revisit cablevision.

Charles Mc Rae

Apartment buildings, condos, or any other property where you don't own the outside of the building is a major pain to install satellite on. This comes from the fact that "you" (the customer) don't own the building, so "we" (the satellite provider) can't mount the dish directly on the building.

That means going above and beyond what would be involved in the "free" installation on a house. This usually requires special mounting hardware, unusually long cable runs, extra time and labor, possibly having to rent ladder truck, chasing property managers for permission to access the building, etc, etc, etc.

So basically this article is complaining because the customer ordered a regular burger, but then realized they were extra hungry, asked for a couple extra patties, and a side of fries, and then complain because they're paying for a big mac.

@fjordtjie: Unless your vehicle has one of those SERIOUSLY integrated stereos. I'd say just go to Crutchfield.com they'll provide that DIN adapter deal and the wiring harness and even give you a guide specific to your vehicle on how to remove the factory stereo and install the new one.

I can't say that its super easy on all vehicles, but I know it's super easy on Ford pickups and a Crown Victoria.

When we had DirectTV installed, the guys tried to charge us $50 without telling us why. We called their supervisor, who didn't seem surprised, asked to speak to onee of the guys (who was very hostile to us when we refused to pay him) and then the guys finally stopped asking. The feeling we got was that this is a standard scam they try on everyone, because it's worth it for the percentage of schmoes that just cough up the cash without checking first. I'm pretty sure their supervisors actually mandate them to try this, and only
"waive" the "fee" when people complain.

Scum.

The feeling we got was that this is a standard scam they try on everyone, because it's worth it for the percentage of schmoes that just cough up the cash without checking first.

Scum.

@Red_Eye: I'm sure this might all be common knowledge for someone who does installs. I wonder, however, how common it is for an installation to include things that are not part of the "free installation". I'm assuming very often. It's a lie of an advertisement, and Direct-TV is a bad company for running it.

In addition I see the mentioned foreign channels, I am not sure in this case but in some those require an additional dish. So two dish mounts.

[www.directv.com]

It says standard, a flat roof no penetrating mount isnt standard nor is a second dish. Sorry I label OP a cry baby or a poor consumerist who didnt do his homework first.

First off, Weather conditions do effect a sats reception. However, Not as much as you would think. If it rains or snows and your reception drops off then the problem is probably that the dish was never sync'ed in for Best reception or when installed it was a poor location to install it. But probably the only one available. Weather does not affect my dish that much at all.

Most all sat companies sub out their installation. So, Its important to get a good installer. I think almost all problems can be traced back to a poor installer that doesnt do his install right or his paperwork correctly.

The ports on the back of their STBs are open so you can hook whatever up to them. Their channel lineup is good, The quality of the signal is alot better than comcast.

Seriously, though, does anyone think they were trying to take advantage of him because he was Russian? By the looks of his letter, he doesn't seem to have much command of the English language - in written form, anyway.

I'm sure you can rent Boomerang from your local Blockbuster. I was always a big Eddie Murphy fan.

While I haven't had any problems with DirecTV serice, I did have a less-than-professional installation experience when I upgraded to HD service. The total install took 9 hours over 2 days because the installer did not bring the right tools - I even had to lend him my cordless drill and several other tools (which I made sure were returned before he left). The installation was sloppy and did not work after the first day. They had to come back and troubleshoot their own work the next day to get it working. This was not a DirecTV employee, but a contractor. I complained to DirecTV about the competence of their contractor, but got zero reaction from the CSR.

Once, we requested an upgrade to 2-line-in DVR service, with 2 DVRs. We had the installation and equipment free.

Last month, we requested an upgrade to a full HD installation and 2 HD-DVRs. We got that, gratis, as well, by offering to waive the 3 months free service as offered to new subscribers in exchange for the installation.

As a long time customer, we simply mentioned they were offering these installs to new customers for free, as was Dish Network.

We gave them the opportunity to have our continued business, or we could switch. All requests were made calmly, with a smile. You can hear a smile over the phone. It works.

Dmitri signed up online. He enters an address, but doesn't get to explain it. They don't know the requirements for his building. It's why no contract is signed until after installation is complete. Dmitri can still install it himself or hire someone else to do it if he wants.

I spent two hours today explaining directtv to a couple today. Their major concern was installation. They know they want custom installation and they are willing to pay for it, and they understood I couldn't give them any kind of estimate on cost - the installer would do that on site. Tomorrow I get to try and find out about liability coverage and what's involved in case of accidental/incidental damage so they can feel 100% comfortable before they order.

Buying from live people can often save you a lot of headaches.

@JohnDeere: I have Dish, single family home in Brooklyn, and as soon as the first raindrop hits the window, the signal goes out. I never knew whether this is the norm or shoddy installation.

During installation, one installer looked quizzically at a wire running down a wall, shrugged, then snipped the wire without further ado. Turned out it was the phone cable. They came out the next day to fix it. But that little interlude always made me wonder exactly what quality of work they did in areas where I wasn't standing nearby, like on the roof.

After six years, we're thinking of switching to Direct TV, because they seem to have a cheaper package that includes the channels we want (BBC, for example). Can Direct TV use the cables strung up by Dish? That would probably save a lot of work in installation.

I know we have no more commitment to Dish, just month-by-month.

Never - ever - use autopay for anything.

@ionerox:

Was the installer's name Ernie Douglas?

My biggest problem was with the ad. Don't tell me that words "no equipment or startup costs" and "free professional installation" is not the same as "Standard installation free, additional fees may apply"

Regardless, I got a call back this afternoon, unfortunately I couldn't pick up the phone at that time, so they left me a message.

As of choosing another provider, my Russian mother in law is staying with us for 6 months and she doesn't speak a word of English, so we need some Russian TV. And there's no other company that would give me 5 real Russian(not American made, Russian language) channels for $30. Everywhere else, one channel would run $15.

Will see what happens tomorrow, when I talk to them.

Bought a Tivo over eBay and used it without drama for over a year, then DTV realized I had it. The fees started climbing and climbing. At $79 a month, I told 'em to blow. Nearly $1000 a year for TV? You gotta be kidding.

I bought a Pinnacle HD usb stick for my Mac. I have all the TV I need, free, and I can record want I want, for free.

I have serviced c band sats in schools (channel one systems)and you have not lived untill you have crossed hundreds of feet of flat tar and rock roof in 100 +degrees what a mess. On the other side hardware and install is not the only way direct can screw you. in 2001 I saw a great deal on a direct package. I was required to purchase the 2 rec. from radio shack and direct sent out an installer.He was a good sub and did a good job however when he went to set up the programming they would not give me the 24$ package I was quoted at the begining.I was told that due to where I lived I had to purchase my programming from pegasus another division. The cost was about 10$ more a month. About a 40% increase. Now the 10 bucks a month sucked but the real issue was the fine print lawyerese screwing bait and switch that so many companies pull now days. They told me that if I did not like it I could return the equipment for a refund and that would be the end of it.I could have done that but after missing a days work and a 90 mile round trip to radio shack once I bent over and took it like a sheep. Sometimes you have to take the loss and move on. I never did get the pegasus thing figured out. It appeared that rural customers with only sat options had to pay more but urban customers got the deals.Needless to say when the year was up I disconnected the service and a friend of mine gave me 50 bucks for the cards as they were the programable good cards.Back to rabbit ears.

"the act of installing something (as equipment)"

That in no way implies that materials are included. When you get a roof put on your house, you pay materials, and you pay labor. Same as car repairs. These companies actually are giving away something free here, and the 'standard installation' includes more than just hooking up existing wires.

If you've never had any installation in that dwelling, they will always connect at least one for free. It may not be where you want it, the wires may be a bit unsightly [although there are guidelines and certifications required to the procedures], but if aesthetics-improving skills are required, that is almost always extra. That also doesn't mean each installer has the experience I do.

Bottom line, aside from customer service hanging up on the customer, I thought everything was actually in order here.

An aside: apartment buildings are notoriously difficult for satellite installers, as they often get turned around at the door by the complex's own rules, or equipment required to make the long distances or piggyback on the cable company's wires, which all cost the installer, and the customer rarely understands why.

Media installer flamewar starts below... ;)

With THAT being said, I've seen many, many satellite providers' installations that were just plain crappy. I can't even count how many fittings were not crimped, compressed, or anything more than slid on the end of the wire. Wires ran directly over the carpet in a main thoroughfare of the household, through windows, not sealed when protruding through exterior walls, and even not attached to anything, anywhere.

This all falls on the individual contractor. You always have the right to ask full ID from the installer when he appears, including full name, installer id, contracting company name, and most important, YOUR info. Don't go for door-to-door sales, you can get the same deal by calling the local installer or the provider directly.

Personally, I've considered starting a company just to clean up after lousy installers, with giving the customer multiple copies of the bill, one intended for the provider, which WILL make sure the original installer takes the hit.

I used to love DTV, but it's down to a like. I don't like the new HD receivers I have to use, too many buggy issues. They're OK *most* of the time, but more trouble then I've had with past Tivos. But every time I compare prices with Comcast, it would cost more to switch to Comcast every month.

My parents who live in Ft Myers Florida have only lost their Directv signal during tropical storms and only for a few mins.

It sucks because Comcast is the only choice I have for High speed internet.

False. If you buy a sufficiently large dish (for DBS, 24 inches is great) your electricity is more likely to go out before the satellite service.

The *VAST* majority of cable TV is linked via satellite, BTW. So, if your satellite goes out but cable TV is working, your dish is either installed improperly, or you're using one of those cheap-ass 19" dishes that are trying to catch two birds at once. 24" inches should be the minimum for perfect service. 18" is the bare minimum for ONE satellite to get adequate service.

Just like if you use twinlead cable to your antenna or cableco your signal will break up the moment anyone on your block uses a major appliance, bad equipment and installation will do the same thing for satellite.

Some supers may force the installer to install cable on the outside of the building. If you're more than a couple of stories up, now we're talking all sorts of special ladders and skyjacks and scaffolding and god-knows-what.

"Normal" apartment installations aren't done for a single person, anyways. The apartment gets one dish professionally installed and an MDU setup is installed in the electrical room for people to share.

Did you offer to let the installer strap the dish to your balcony? This they probably would have done for free, although the super would probably hate it. Or maybe you're facing north.

I have no idea what the contract you signed said, but I'm willing to bet it's for HOME installation, not APARTMENT or CONDO installation (which are absolutely different when it comes to satellite).

First off, they are paid by the job, not the hour, so you can imagine how stressful days with several jobs can be. This doesn't excuse sloppy work that is done by someone in a hurry, but working for Direct TV is a high stress job.

Not only that, but all the Coax cable that is used for installs has to be bought by the subby. While the dishes and receivers are provided, there are many things that DTV doesn't provide which comes out of the pocket of the subby. This is why most subby companies allow a sub to charge the customer after going over a certain amount of cable, however that amount is very substantial (around 150') and not once while I worked for them did I ever have to charge a person for extra cable.

The install itself is free. The only time a subby should be charging the customer more for an install, at least where I live, is for putting in a post, and that ranges from $50 - $100 depending on what is provided for the subby by DTV. Other than those two things, we really couldn't charge for anything else. All the rest was paid by DTV.

I will say this... I've seen some pretty bad jobs when I've gone into houses for tech jobs. Make sure you know what these installers for all these companies are doing before they do it.

Personally, I wouldn't let anyone do a dish install on my home unless they were there to do the absolute minimum required to get service - covered under 'standard installation'. I run my own cabling, set up my own boxes (it's easy, really), and can even aim my dish (with a little help from a buddy watching the meters on the screen from one of the boxes).

I'm the same way with cable TV service I've had in the past. Connect the drop and leave me alone!

It's not that I don't think all the people they might send aren't qualified or competent. There are some good ones out there, but the ones I seem to get are nothing more than barely-trained monkeys. As a result, I forced myself to learn how to do a proper job of it myself. Now, unless there's something wrong with the infrastructure outside my home, the boxes themselves, or with the service I receive, I have no need to call the provider.

when i first got directv, we had 5 receivers installed and the guy was there for 5-6 hours I swear, never charged more. When I moved they came out and reinstalled on a new built house. Was easy as I had the builder run 2 coax to each room and then terminate in the garage, where I put an outlet, right under the spot where the dish was to go. I think that installer loved me for that. LOL.

Comcast doesn't subcontract all their stuff. When I lived in Baltimore City, my comcast installers were all contractors, but when I moved to Baltimore County, the installer worked for Comcast, and drove an actual Comcast van instead of a '98 Caravan with a sticker on the side.

supposedly the contract negotiations are come up either this year or 2010, so maybe my misery is over soon?

Happened to me as well. You get up to 20' of coax run for free. Anything over that amount, you have to pay extra. Seeing as how HD-DVR's require 2 lines ruing into them, most people will go over this 20' max. easily. It was $45 in my case. They also only give you component connections. You have to supply your own HDMI cord.

The installers weren't the best either. One room with an HD-DVR in it, the installer connected it to the TV with an S-Video cord. If I hadn't looked to check out their work, they would have gotten away with it. I had to tel them to change it.

If you experience rain fade, call them and have them aim your dish (or better yet, find someone like me with a sat meter willing to do it for you in exchange for a cold one!).

Since Dimitriy lives in an apartment, either his apartment is not facing South (the approximate direction the dish must point depending on where in the country he lives) or his landlord wouldn't let him mount the dish to the building/pole in the yard. From the sounds of it, I'm guessing both. Also, most apartment managers won't let you drill through the wall to run the cable, either.

There IS a solution, however. For mounting the dish, you use a "non-penetrating roof mount," load it with cinder blocks, and mount the dish to it. This is NOT part of a STANDARD installation. To bring the wire into the building without drilling holes, you use "flat wire." This allows you to run cable in through a window, and shut the window on it. Also NOT part of a STANDARD installation.

DirecTV did not bait and switch him or try to deceive him in any way. He can have a STANDARD installation for free. His situation is special, and requires a special installation.

I got one of those weather radios too, after the last few killer tornadoes. When it goes off loudly in the middle of the night, it scares the bejeebers out of me.

My DirecTV only goes out when there is lightning. It could rain like Noah's Ark and it won't do anything. And, of course, during the January 2007 ice storm. But there was no power so I couldn't watch TV anyway.

My cable never went out, but they kept jacking up the price every month and added nothing.

@InfiniTrent: But, I don't see the stated reason for not doing the free installation on that list.

@JohnDeere: My boyfriend's goes out whenever it storms. He had to clear ice and snow off of it a few times this year already. I had Dish before and always lost my signal in a good rain or snow. Comcast may be a pain, but I've never lost the sginal in bad weather.

With cable, severe weather doesn't usually cause an outage, but when it does, you've got no control over the resumption of service. If you're lucky, it gets fixed quickly. If you've got Comcast ...

I personally can't wait until I move and don't have direct tv anymore. Everytime its really windy or it rains a lot or snows (I live in Western, NY), the picture on the tv goes out. When they came to install it for everyone in the building they all wanted to charge us more because the cable in the building was old. I hate Direct TV with a passion and I will never ever go back once I get out of my apartment.

For the two months I've had it, I couldn't be happier. The picture, service and DVR are all great, much better than Time Warner. Best of all, I pay $60 per month for the Gold / Top HD package with all my locals...a better price than DirectTv.

I've heard nothing but bad things about DirecTV and will never, ever have service through them.

But that advertisement does not say "standard installation is free." When you have to change the ad to make it truthful, you're necessarily admitting that the original ad was not truthful.

Several friends of mine have had cable installed in their homes, and their idea of a professional installation was to staple the coax wire around the doors frames and along the bottom of the wall.

@Ryan0rZ: ohh and 5 times a year for an hour at a time is probably the most problems i have had, but that is still 5 more than when i had cable.

@Ryan0rZ: ive had direct tv for 4 years and at 2 different locations. i got a 99% and 97% signal (if those mean anything) and a good hard rain will put it out for atleast a few minutes every time. doesnt have to be a severe storm. ive recently bought a weather radio so i can atleast hear if im in danger. i never had any problems watching the news when i was worried when i had cable. (i did lose alot of sleep that way, now i mostly sleep through the storms)

We're getting better, though. This time it took over an hour for the first "blame the customer" post.

I'm not saying this is a correct business practice, only that it's not exclusive to DirecTV.

@InfiniTrent: @homerjay wants Boston Legal back!: I have had two service calls to fix it, the last one repairman said "it might be the LNB's but since there's snow on the roof I can't replace them until spring". So I already took two days off work and the guy in retention said after the second service call that I wouldn't have to pay the contract cancellation fee if they couldn't fix it that day. And he couldn't fix it that day.

Also, there's no excuse for being hung up on. Bad CSR!

[directv.com]

Click on "Professional Installation Overview" to see what's included.

Here are some things specifically excluded from the "Free Installation":

* Mounting dish on a pole (unless required for line of sight), tripod, etc.
* Routing cables through more than one wall or fishing cables between walls.
* Any additional work to hide or camouflage cables/wiring.
* Installing additional receivers or routing system to more than one TV outlet.
* Connecting system to stereo and/or components other than VCR.

@nicemarmot617: I had the same problem when trying to swap out my HD reciever. The $250 is from the first HD box. Until they get it back, it stands.

They didn't send me a proper sized box to return the old one either. After a couple weeks of calling and being told a box was comming, I just used the return addy label and crammed the old one in the new one's box. They have insurance incase something damages in transit.

To their credit, they did reimburse me for the cost of a box to ship it, but I never bought it.

@Its_Miller_Time: "uh, ma'am the slot for your stereo was bigger than the stereo itself, so we installed an [cheap plastic] insert and charged your card an extra $50".

I said either it's free like stated in "totally free installation" or you uninstall everything and return it. The stereo itself was only $100 so that was a 50% increase in price! They did end up doing it for free afterall.

Either way, it sounds like this guy needed a non-penetrating roof mount, and those are absolutely not free.

The house that I just purchased had a leaking front porch roof, and a directTV mast anchored to the roof.

I looked to the other side of the roof, there was another mast, this one with a dishnetwork dish on it.

They had installed large anchors to mount the mast to the top of the roof, right through the shingles.

It was leaking at both masts onto the porch.

I ended up installing a new roof, and now my tenants agree to use Cable or Fios for their Television service, I don't want a dish on my property again.

The standard def stuff has a really wide sweet spot, but the new MPEG4 HD satellites have about a 80% smaller target. What results in 100% signal on SD may mean 0% signal on HD.

@Eldritch: Nothing is free.
Something, however, costs extra.

@InfiniTrent: The question is, what do they state is included in their "standard" installation. Methinks there is rarely a standard installation and it's a convenient way for DirectTV (or the contractor) to get more fees from you. What would solve this is a description of what a standard installation is and the rates for common "extras."

When I got a roommate, I called in to ask about putting cable in the other room and they said that was a free service.

The guy came and was able to do it using just spliters and snaking a cord to the other room. He told my roommate that it was going to be free and didn't have to charge us.

The next month, I get an invoice charging for the installation of 2 outlets!!!

When I called to ask WTF, the rep actually told me the the splitter was 1 outlet and the cord was the 2nd outlet!!!! I asked then why was the 2nd outlet charged 5 days after the guy was there? Also explained that the he told me there was no fee because he didn't need to install an outlet. After speaking to a supervisor, they took all the extra charges off.

I had DirecTV from 1996 until earlier this year and never had major issues. The only times I ever lost my signal was when snow stuck to the dish (Michigan) or when their was severe solar activity -- although, this seemed to only happen in the first few years. All-in-all, this only happened at most five times a year for no more than an hour at any one time.

(I am now a happy DishNetwork subscriber -- time came to upgrade to HD and their offerings were much better.)

If you look at how some of those antennas are mounted, and I mean really LOOK, they're really crappily done. The installer sets paid by the job, so they try to get in and get it done as fast as possible.

So you get things like antennas mounted directly on the roof, THROUGH THE SHINGLES.

Yeah, it took me a few hours, but it's a nice solid job, mounted on the back side of my chimney, and not visible from the front of the house.

All "installers" are just contractors. There are good ones and bad ones. If you get a bad one - call Directv and tell them to send you a different installer.

One may try to rip you off or look like he is casing your house. The should be able to escalate your install to a level 2 installer. Directv is usually pretty good because they know some installers are sleazy.

I have been lucky and gotten good guys. I even slipped a guy a $20 and he ran some home theater cables for me at the same time and then gave me an extra remote.

A friend of mine got a guy that looked like he was just released from prison. He had a bad attitude, so my buddy told the guy to leave before he even got thru his stuff in the door. Directv sent out a differnt installer the next day.

Rook

NFL has me (and many others) by the balls.

@ludwigk: The installers are independent contractors, not DirecTV employees. If they comped stuff like that they would be getting ripped off every install by their own contractors.

I had DirecTV with one input from the wall and cancelled it for a while, then signed up again with 2 DVRs with 2 inputs each. I knew the "free" installation didn't include the extra 3 drops. It's free assuming they don't have to run any drops, but if your house isn't already wired then the wiring isn't free. I think I was charged $100.

@nicemarmot617: Couldn't you cancel your credit/debit card to keep them from charging you, report to your bank or whoever you had autopay thru that they were charging you for services not rendered?

Wow. When we had DirectTV installed, our installer went above and beyond to run a new line and drill an outlet without charging extra. He was super professional but friendly, and even helped my boyfriend move some furniture around.

The only bad part of it all is that the dish is on the porch roof right under the overhang from the top of the house. When the snow melts and then the temperature drops a lot, ice freezes on the dish.

@JohnDeere: I haven't lost signal during a rainstorm or snowstorm yet.

@homerjay wants Boston Legal back!: I concur... as long as they aren't charging people extra ON the standard installations, which they have been known to do. They could be taking advantage of little old ladies... "We used an extra 2 ft of cord, that will be $25. Then standard installation takes 45 minutes, this took 50 so I get a prorated fee of $20...."

Never, never, never, never, never sign up for DirecTV. That is all.

@homerjay wants Boston Legal back!: I'm gonna have to somewhat disagree then. Extra hidden costs are sleazy and dishonest, and just because "everyone does them" does not make them less sleazy nor less dishonest.

Yes extra work should be charged. But don't offer "free" installation if its not free.

@Darascon: My installation was free... they reused all the old Dish Network lines, and put the dish facing right into the treeline. It was late November, no leaves on the trees. I remember the installer going "It's OK now, but I don't know what it'll do in the spring..." Had not a clue what he was talking about.

Until Spring. And the leaves returned. Our signal went from OK to NOTHING. I crawled up on the roof and realized what they had done. I called Directv's idiot parade in customer support- They wanted me to pay $90 for Directv to come out and move the dish they improperly placed to begin with since it was over 30 days since the installation. I wrote an email to Chase Carey, within 24 hours I had a phone call saying "So Sorry, we'll be out in 2 days to fix this completely for free".

What a joke, some of these installers are.

sometimes the installer might work a side deal with you - pay them in cash & they won't charge the pre-set installation fees.

All of this, of course, while having to go through a 45-minute phone menu everytime you have to talk to someone, followed, about 60% of the time, by being hung up on as soon as you're transferred to the correct department. I have only actually spoken to the "tech department" once because every other time I was transferred there, I got hung up on.

not to mention it only takes a little rain to lose your signal.

Sounds like when they say "Free Installation" for car radios - but yet, you end up paying for all the additional "extras" that you need - ie - antenna connection, wiring harness, etc...

If you live on the north side of a mountain and the only way to get direcTV signal is to route a line all the way to the top of the mountain and then erect a 40' pole to get your dish above the treeline would you expect that to be included too?

Sometimes your life just isn't standard. Unfortunately thats why fine-print exists. At least they didn't hold you to the contract you committed to.

Sorry, I'm "that guy" today.

So.. after 10 years, I'm screwed but I'm still cancelling directv.

I wonder if they like to give the apartment people more of a runaround than those in houses?

Oohhh Comcast, why the hell can't you just get Boomerang so I can be content with life?????

I had this happen to me as well. Installation just means strapping the dish up somewhere, drilling a couple holes to run the cables to your existing junction, and pluging it in. If you don't have cable in the room, it's a new drop point fee. Some extra stuff if they have to run new cables, etc etc etc.

It sucks the way they word shit, but everyone does it.