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I don't expect Ford to go under, and besides, will the market for parts for defunct car lines really go away that fast? They may cost a bit more, but (and I know that this is an old and maybe not valid comparison) I just upgraded my seven-year-old Mac laptop, I expect that there will still be Corvette parts or whatever seven years from now. Probably long enough to make buying a new American car now in terms of getting my money's worth from it.
That said, if I were in the market for a new car now, I'd get a Subaru.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-6173-100x100.png\")
@halloweenjack: I am quite happy with my Ford Focus. It's a 2000, the first model year, which still had a few kinks in it, and I've STILL never had any major problems with it (knock on wood). Most expensive thing I've done is replace the tires, and it gets 30+ mpg. I'd definitely buy it again (in fact, we did -- my husband drives an 02 Focus), and I definitely recommend it to other people. (And besides its reliability, it's the only car we've found that my 6'4\" husband and 5'2\" me can both adjust to a comfortable driving position.)
That said, when this car poops out on me, I'll be looking at a hybrid, or whatever comes along to replace hybrids (fuel cell? electric?), which today would mean Honda or Toyota (part of me secretly wants a Smart-for-2, but you can't legally put a carseat in one of those in my state). However, if Ford comes up with some environmentally-friendly small cars, I'd definitely consider another Ford.
Ford seems to be in the best position to stick around longer term, and I don't actually have any fear that there won't be parts available -- there are plenty of non-manufacturer parts on the market for all kinds of cars. You can still keep a Studebaker running if you really want to. I'm also not terribly concerned about resale value because I want a car that I'll drive at least 10 years. If it has basically zero resale at that point, I'm okay with that.
@Eyebrows McGee: My dad has a 2004 Ford Focus station wagon. He loves it he always seems to run into people who have the same car sometimes different style like the sedan or the smaller hatchback and they all love it too. Its a good car. He has well over 100,000 miles on it and very few repairs on it.
@pixiegirl1: I'm gonna have to agree with you there- I've owned a Focus hatchback and sedan (03 and 04 respectively), and as far as economy cars go, they are the shit! I just wish they'd bring over some of the Europe-only Focus models, those are even cooler...
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-280999-100x100.png\")
Transportation is one area in which you want the lowest cost possible. Buy an American car; their quality has gone way up in recent years, and if you're concerned about warranty issues/repair costs, buy an extended warranty through a third-party underwriter (like GE or Assurant) that will allow you to go to repair shops other than the dealer. If you beat up the dealer for the warranty (as you should - the cost shouldn't be more than $1000) you'll still come out ahead.
@winstonthorne: buy an extended warranty through a third-party underwriter
The above is horrible advice. Never buy a third party warranty.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-469751-100x100.png\")
@winstonthorne: If I have to buy an extended warranty because I'm afraid of the car falling to pieces, I don't want it. There are other cars I can buy where this isn't an issue.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-537475-100x100.png\")
@HurtsSoGood: I bought an extended warranty because I intend to keep my car for a long, long time and know absolutely nothing about fixing cars. Sure, I can learn basics like changing oil but when something actually does break (hopefully years down the line) I better be sure that I can minimize the damage to my wallet.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-550094-100x100.png\")
@winstonthorne: All your points are true, but the american companies don't make what I want. Where is their Eclipse, Tiburon (soon to be Genesis Coupe) Accord Coupe, Civic Si, Vw GTI, Mini Cooper, Nissan Altima Coupe?
1) have uninspiring interiors
2) are just ugly, or are styled to look like a car from 40 years ago
3) are larger than they should be
4) are heavy and feel heavy as well.
I'd love to buy American, but they have to make what I want. I think that is their main problem. Not just in the \"pocket rocket\" segment I've described above, but in general as well.
@Ayanami: Honestly, that's one of the reasons why I didn't consider any cars from the big 3. They just didn't make anything like what I wanted. The closest was probably the Jeep Compass or the Pontiac Vibe, but the Vibe was more on par with the Toyota Matrix in terms of size, and I wanted something a little larger while preserving fuel economy. The Compass, while being what I wanted in terms of size and fuel economy, looked downright ugly to me. And lets not get started on the Dodge Caliber. Ugh, it looks like a toy.
@tbax929: Yeah, they have quality issues over at Mitsu, specifically with the eclipse.
You either get one that is awesome or one that is full of fail.
@Ayanami: Awhile back, I rented a Mercury Sable, and I hated it. The handling was all mushy, and the ergonomics were for shit. I couldn't wait to get back to my Accord.
Mesasge for Detroit - we don't like cars that drive like Grandpa's old Pontiac. We don't like dashboard layouts with dozens of buttons in random locations because some designer (who should have been fired) thought it was \"edgy.\" And we sure don't like sending the whole mess to the shop every other month, warranty or no warranty. We have places to go, things to do, and the less we see of that den of iniquity where we bought the car before it's time to get another one, the better.
And we don't like salesmen who think we're all morons, and apparently get rated on how badly he can rip us off.
@HurtsSoGood: to be fair, the Sable is not a comparable model to the Accord. That's like saying \"I hated the Accord, because it didn't drive like my GTI. Why can't the Japanese make a decent-handling car?\"
The Mercury model you'd want to compare would be the Milan. (Ford Fusion)
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-68654-100x100.png\")
@Ayanami: i agree, but i have to admit - japan's designs have also been quite uninspiring lately. i never really got into nissan's new look & now it's virtually impossible to tell the difference between a camry, an accord & an altima. boo.
i really credit toyota with working actively to capture that segment, though. the scion line is such an excellent idea - even if you don't like the designs, the concept is superb. inexpensive cars designed to be custom-modded, complete with a whole line of performance parts to choose from. now THAT'S forward thinking.
@mac-phisto: Yeah, Scion is a great idea. All manufacturers lately are suffering from blandness disease, I don't know why this is the trend, but hopefully it'll end soon. While the looks of the foreign guys are slacking a little, what the cars offer at the price isn't.
And what's with all the cars having headlights that come halfway up the firggin' hood? It's a disturbing design trend that fails and needs to be abandoned.
I remember reading somewhere that american car designers are an exclusive group, and usually come from something like 3 schools. They need to go out and get some fresh blood IMO.
@winstonthorne: The best way to get the lowest cost possible is to pay a bit extra to buy a high quality car at the beginning so that you get more life out of it.
The cost per mile for the Honda I kept running for nineteen years was rock bottom.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-3865-100x100.png\")
I'm broke, but would pick up a new car if I had the money. Anyone wanna give me a loan?
The only gamble to it is if a) you get a complete lemon and b) your manufacturer goes completely down the tubes.
It's generally accepted that most (certainly not all) cars do fine for at least their warranty period. So even if your manufacturer does blink out of existence, all you're going to lose is free service on stuff that probably won't break for 3 or 4 years anyway.
As for replacement parts in general, there won't be a problem. Walk into an Autozone/Advance/Pep Boys/Whatever and you can get almost any part ever made and probably within a day or two. That won't change. It just won't be free if your warranty is kaput.
You might have to be a little more careful in your definition of American made cars.
I don't have the reference to hand but I believe it is well known that a Honda is one of the cars with the most American made parts. Yes, some of those Japanese brands are the most American built cars with the likes of GM, Ford etc more likely to use imported part or just have the thing built in Canada or Mexico.
@sir_eccles: Uh.. no he's right. Quite often Tier 1, or Tier 2 companies (companies that supply the Detroit 3, or supply their suppliers) Are overseas companies.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-186777-100x100.png\")
@sir_eccles: I think it's pretty apparent to everyone what the article is about.
Thanks for being pedantic though. It gives me that warm holiday glow.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-315381-100x100.png\")
After all of this, I won't buy from the \"big\" 3 ever. I'll ensure my children and theirs do the same.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-527042-100x100.png\")
@John Glasgow: Except that most of the imports are being built here in the U.S. I won't buy a auto from the U.S. automakers not just because they are U.S. autos, because most of those pieces of S*** are made in Mexico and Canada. I'd rather buy a Honda or Toyota built here in the good old U.S. of A. built by U.S. workers. John Glasgow you go a head and drive and purchase your autos from a bankrupt company and see just see how much after sale service you get.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-69891-100x100.png\")
@Adam2010: \"I won't buy a auto from the U.S. automakers not just because they are U.S. autos, because most of those pieces of S*** are made in Mexico and Canada.\"
Chrysler has thirty US plants alone... soon to be less than that, as Newark, DE is ceasing production. I'm sure other closings will follow, whether or not the company folds. I doubt the auto workers who are or will be unemployed would appreciate your logic. Are the foreign automakers going to hire them or pay the pensions for the retired employees who spent their lives building those cars, trucks and SUVs? Of course not.
I know the Big Three have their problems. They have greatly lost focus and are behind foreign automakers in many significant ways. But to say you are going to refuse to buy their cars because they aren't made here is not particularly well informed. Foreign automakers have overseas and US plants, but so do American automakers. Be angry at how they've been mismanaged or at the quality of the product, but by your justification, you're just choosing one group of U.S. auto workers over another.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-370594-100x100.png\")
It's not a \"risk\" if you really need a car, somebody will be around to fix it if it breaks.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-93244-100x100.png\")
Just because they may declare bankruptcy doesn't automatically mean that any of the big 3 car companies will close shop. Conversely, going bankrupt may save GM from the massive overhead of pension funds, health insurance etc. They can basically start from scratch with the unions.
My latest car purchase was American (a Dodge Magnum to replace a Volvo S70SE) and I couldn't (so far) be happier with a car. Not having to worry about all of the front end issues that come with FWD cars and not having to change a timing belt (it has a chain) is just another reason I'm not worried about the future with this car.
\"American doesn't mean inferior\"
I beg to differ. Quality is, and has always been, the problem. I, and many consumers, would be willing to take a slight hit in the gas mileage category, as long as I knew I could trust the quality.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-27305-100x100.png\")
@Radoman: consumer reports' reader survey typically award Japanese automakers the top slots for lowest repairs, best resale values, and highest reliability scores.
@ironchef: yes, even when American-badged versions of the same car (built on the same assembly line) get lower scores.
@ironchef: Quality might not be a problem any more, but like many previous American car loyalists I've been burned too many times in the past to consider returning...unless someone makes me a deal I can't pass up and I don't see that happening.
@Radoman: If you want to take an overtly macroscopic perspective, I guess you could say that. But when you say \"american car\" you're talking everything from a hummer to a saturn. A lot of american cars may be crap, but certainly not all. they just need to axe the turds and keep the gems, which is what it sounds like is their plan.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-103878-100x100.png\")
@lpranal and the magic holiday taco dip: I think that's the problem. There are only a few American gems, the majority are of poor, or perhaps, questionable, quality. Meanwhile, even the Japanese entry level cars have a certain basic quality to them. Go Civic/Corolla/Sentra or above and you're miles ahead of most American cars. The Big 3 have been surviving on Trucks/SUV's and our latent patriotism to \"Buy American\" and not any improvements in their model lineup, quality, etc.
With more and more foreign cars made in the US and and a general economic downturn more will put money above this principle.
It depends what you're looking for. There are definitely some segments where the American manufacturers are the clear market leaders. If I were looking for a pickup truck I would find my nearest Ford dealer. If I wanted a muscle car I'd buy American.
Unfortunately that's not what I was looking for when I purchased my new vehicle 3 months ago. I wanted a utilitarian, practical car that is also fun to drive. Ended up with a VW GTI and I love it!
@Eric1285: I agree 100% with you on this one, the \"pocket rocket\" segment gets no love from the Americans (see my comment above I go into a bit of detail)
I'd NEVER buy a foreign truck, ever. Why? The americans make them so damn well. I had a friend that had a old 78 Bronco sit in 4 feel of water for 3 months. When he finally pulled it out, all it took was a tap on the piston heads and a new battery to get it running again.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-665956-100x100.png\")
@Ayanami:
Americans make a hell of a truck. A friend of mine has a Nissan Titan; he traded in his Ford F150 for it and has regretted it ever since. The thing's been in the shop more than it's been on the road. I think a lot of people who question the quality of American cars haven't checked one out in several years. They're not the POS's they used to be.
i would gladly commit to an American made car if there were such a thing.
but buying japanese currently will support just as many american workers, be more reliable, be around in 5 years, and get better gas mileage.
@Oakie Pokie: A high percentage of the parts in a Japanese Brand car are indeed made in Japan. The Japanese worker doesn't help pay your taxes and receives his health care from the government. Add that health care into the equation. Also, check the number of recalls and Japanese brands-- you will be surprised.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-178471-100x100.png\")
My car isn't an American one, but it was made from a plant here in America.
Sorry, but I'm really not a fan of the American car brands.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1802-100x100.png\")
The Big 3 may cost less up front but you'll be hit hard by depreciation. Quality may have improved but they're still a generation or two behind the competition and their recent past (Ford's fire-starting cruise control modules, Chevy's premature-wearing tie rods) don't inspire confidence.
The best car I've ever owned out of a VW, Buick, Chevy, and Infiniti is the latter. Bought it used eight years ago and nary a problem to this day. The Chevy had a leak from the day it was driven off the lot and the dealer could never fix it. When it rained, the trunk and rear seat floor area filled with water. The Buick's transmission went out, then the A/C compressor, then the heater core in the space of less than two years.
It's a folly to base the rationale for a purchase on patriotism. And, I would rather buy a Nissan built in TN than, say, a Chevy Equinox whose engine is built in China, among other parts.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-529488-100x100.png\")
@factotum: Though I doubt it would've caused my car to spontaneously combust, I will admit my Hyundai Elantra had two very serious recalls within the first year I owned it. One dealt with steering linkages and the other was the airbags. The dealership informed me and fixed both free of charge, but no car is \"perfect\"
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-340894-100x100.png\")
@factotum: Yeah I don't understand how some people get so down on \"foreign\" cars. I believe almost every brand has something being manufactured in the states...unlike the \"american\" cars where some things are being manufactured in China and Mexico.
I have a 2001 VW golf that has never had a problem since I bought it used in 03.
When it dies, I'll buy myself a used mk4 GTI and be happy with the upgrade. Buying a new car has never, and will never, make any financial sense at all.
@m4ximusprim3: I had a 2001 Jetta VR6 and its purchase was one of my all-time largest regrets. Other than the engine (made in Germany) and transmission (made in South America) every system of this car, which was assembled in Mexico, had some kind of problem: Air bags, water pump, catalytic converter (which turned out to be a software bug they discovered after VW replaced it at their expense), ignition, window regulators, AC. Fortunately I had an extended warranty or I would have been out a lot more money than I already was. Once it expired I started shopping for a new car. Indeed, on the morning of the day I was going to trade in the car, the Check Engine light went on which meant another $500 repair to the emissions system before I could even unload it.
I now drive a Civic Hybrid and my husband drives a Scion TC and we couldn't be happier.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-83385-100x100.png\")
I think my car (VW Passat TDI) was made in Mexico. No US made car had what I wanted (reliability, fuel economy, mid size, power, high resale value, no worries about batteries in 10 years).
Besides, I live close to one of the most reknown foreign service shops in the US (Gene's), so I don't have to worry about getting raped like I used to by the Ford Stealerships to fix my Explorer.
Bought a 2008 Avalanche Sat, >25% off window. Someone will always make parts, NAPA and the rest, but I agree GM will be a smaller company than it is today. Worth the risk to me.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-387761-100x100.png\")
Even if there weren't economic upheaval, I still wouldn't buy a US made car. Japanese and many European model cars offer low price, reliability and fuel economy that US car makers can't match - correction, they won't match.
Remember the old joke, \"Quality, price, service - select any two\"? With US car makers, it's true, but not with Japanese and Europeans.
@P_Smith:
I don't know if that's as true today as it was 10 years ago. Many \"Japanese\" cars are made right here in the US in order to be price competitive. I have driven Acuras for the last 9 years and I can tell you first hand that the quality of my newest Acura isn't even close to my first one.
I don't think you should buy American just because it's \"American made\" but some of the cars that come from Detroit as every bit as good as the ones that come from off-shore.
@cowboyshootist: ditto that with some of europe's new offerings. i was test driving some 3-series earlier this year & they're very...plasticky. i mean, they just don't feel like a $35k+ \"german-engineered\" car should. it felt more like a kia than older bmw's i've driven.
& don't get me started on vw/audi. i know people love those cars, but i've had nothing but trouble with them.
i think all-around there's just been a massive decrease in quality as the \"wal-mart effect\" of korean brands has caused carmakers to sacrifice quality for price. or, in referring to hyundai, perhaps the \"samsung effect\" is a better term. they're really starting to offer a decent lineup of reliable vehicles that appeal to people.
it's important to note that they kind of receive unfair treatment in comparison to other foreign carmakers with the KORUS FTA. if their models were subject to the same tariffs as european/japanese manufacturers, i doubt they would maintain their significant price advantage.
No option for 'buying one of the uncommonly good american-made cars to prevent Detroit from turning into a Robocop-esque postapocalyptic wasteland'? Looking for a little love for my hometown.
Still, I agree that all American cars aren't made equal, and neither are all foreign cars - a Kia isn't as good as a Hyundai, and so on. Consumerist folks like to do research before they buy, so take a look at the American competition while you're doing your comparisons - you might be pleasantly suprised. I was really attracted to the Toyota Matrix, and found out that it is basically the same car as the Pontiac Vibe - a product of one of those funky joint-partnerships, and the Vibe (both used and new) is substantially cheaper than its japanese brother.
My father and grandfather always bought American cars. I will always buy American cars. And I will ensure that my children and grandchildren always buy American cars.
To my knowledge, we've never had any problems with any of our Ford or GM cars.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-358196-100x100.png\")
@huntsterUNC: I find it ironic that none of the people who made basically the same statement as you got as many scathing replies. The only difference between your post and theirs is that they said they would never buy from the big three.
It's the same blindness, only instead of devotion, it's hatred. Those who refuse to buy American do it for the same type of stupid reasons that people who will only buy American do.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-77175-100x100.png\")
@godlyfrog: No I wouldn't say that. My parents had a Ford, Buick, Chevy, Chrysler and a Pontiac. ALL of those cars left me stranded on a road somewhere at some point.
I've owned 2 toyotas of my own and NEVER been stranded. The one I'm currently driving is a '91 with 192,500 miles on it. I've driven it cross country about 5 times and other than a new clutch have never had a MAJOR repair done.
Its reliable and still gets about 26mpg in the city. WHY after my own experience would I purchase an American car when EVERY single one of them I've had the experience of driving has been nothing but problematic?
Its not blind loyalty, its common sense.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-622223-100x100.png\")
@huntsterUNC: I'm the same way, and not for any rational reason. My dad raised me Catholic, and a loyal customer of UAW made cars. I can't quite shake either of them.
@tgpt: Not if they were an Irish Catholic, they wouldn't. It's hard to explain, it's the Irish Catholic pre-WWII immigration, involvement with the unions, rivalry with other ethnic groups, etc. Suffice it to say that Italian Catholicism is considered guache, and to be a real American is to buy a UAW car. No one ever said culture made sense.
@Adah: My dad's a Michigander. I always feel guilty and just a little dirty when I consider non-UAW cars. Even though my dad now drives a Prius. :P
@huntsterUNC: Not exactly American- not GM. My current GM car (Buick Excelle)- China-made. Repeated turn signal issues.
@jamar0303: repeated turn signal issues? do you mean it works, it doesn't work, it works, it doesn't work...
that's really kinda funny if you think about it.
@huntsterUNC: Hrm. After further thought, maybe I should further clarify. We don't have a Toyota or Honda dealership in our town/county. We will buy locally which means Ford or GM. (Well only GM now)
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-34412-100x100.png\")
Are you sure your Ford and GM vehicles are \"American\"? There's a possibility it was made in Canada or Mexico. Also, there are many American cars that have parts sourced from foreign countries.
@huntsterUNC: I didn't know Ford or GM's were American made cars? I mean sure, they are American Auto companies but that's like saying Walmart is an all American retailer. Sure the corporate offices might be here in the states, but that hardly qualifies. If that is the criteria then Toyota is also an American made car. blind loyalty I guess
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-483565-100x100.png\")
@huntsterUNC: I'm honestly curious--does your family's Buy American philosophy extend to other manufacturing as well, or is it just the auto industry? How do you decide which American industries you'll support and which you won't? It seems a tough thing to do across the board, but it also would seem a hard thing to single industries out for.
What deals are there for cars? I go to the dealership, wanting to buy a car, and they tack on all these miscellaneous fees. Some of the American car dealerships don't even seem interested in selling me a car.
I would buy American, but they have to build something I want. It seems up until recently my market segment was completely forgotten. I want a good all around sports car for about 30k.
In 02 I looked and ended with a Subaru Impreza WRX, I ended up lemon lawing that car; test drove everything under the sun and bought an 03 WRX.
In 05 I looked again and wound up with an Subaru Impreza WRX STi. When I got the STi I drove everything I could get my hands on and nothing compared for the $$.
I was thinking about trading the 05 STi in, but nothing out there really catches my interest. The closest thing is the yet to be released Pontiac Solstice Coupe - which may never see the light of day.
If they would get over their insane obsession with piggy muscle cars it would do wonders for my market segment. (That being said the new Cobolt is particularly impressive.)
(BTW, one interesting metric for what cars are good all around sports cars is how the SCCA classifies them for autocross. [www.moutons.org] )
@celer: the solstice is ok - they really flubbed up the front of that car. if it looked more like its sister, the opel gt, i might be interested. [www.opel.de]
i agree with you though - why no sport coupes for us americans? all i can think is that maybe the market doesn't exist. how long has the crossfire been out & i haven't seen a single one outside of a dealership. honda killed both their prelude & rsx - i can only imagine that's b/c they weren't meeting sales expectations. toyota killed off the celica again & even though they're offering the solara - that's no sports coupe. trust me, i drive one.
the wrx sti is a pretty badass ride - i got freakin _smoked_ by one the other day. but it doesn't exactly meet your <30k expectation either. once you get in the high 30's & 40's, there's loads of sports coupes to choose from (including the sti).
@huntsterUNC: I'm thinking you might loose the GM dealer after the current crisis plays out. Then you'll have to buy outside your town/county and this will open up your selection to include Toyota, Honda and others.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-37033-100x100.png\")
If you have the money to spend
AND
You like at least one of their products
AND
You were intending to void the important parts of the warranty anyway (Hmm...that Corvette could really use two turbos)
Then yes, it makes perfect sense regardless of what happens.
@TechnoDestructo: i'd love to have one of these in my garage. sports a 7-liter ls7 v-8 750-hp power plant. carbon fiber shell reduces the weight 100-lbs from the z06. see more at [ugursahindesign.com]
of course, i'd need a garage first...
I still would only drive European - and to me BMW stands for bull**it motor works; I don't count it as \"european\".
I like VW, and Volvo (my two favourites). I don't think I would ever drive an American car (might drive American before I do a BMW though!).
The way I see it, the big three owe me a car because of all the bailouts over the years. I will never buy an American car again, especially with Nissan converting over to electric vehicles here in Oregon.
the ironic thing is that the American hybrids can actually get the same or slightly worse mileage of a honda or toyota GAS car and they thing they are doing well.
another point is that the value of American cars drop a LOT after you drive it off the lot. Not to mention that their operating costs are higher. who hasn't heard the phrases \"Fix Or Repair Daily\" or a \"Found On Road Dead.\"
I would like to see the US car companies stay around and be viable but when you compare them to the foreighn cars they don't hold up ....
then you have the unions which run the cost of US cars up a lot more than they need to so people that are laid off get paid 95% of their regular pay
@Kaosian: actually I think the vehicle with the lowest overall operating costs is the 4-cylinder 2wd Ford Ranger.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-157386-100x100.png\")
@Kaosian: There's the new Fusion hybrid that gets more MPG than the Camry Hybrid. It also looks nicer inside as well.
[www.autoblog.com]
rated-41-city-36-highway-by-epa/
The Gas Fusion does pretty well too.
Even if all three companies went belly-up tomorrow, their parts are for the most part actually supplied by other companies, who I'm quite sure would carry on manufacturing them for the aftermarket... er, market.
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the sad truth is that all automakers, not just American but I would say more so than the others, refuse to innovate. We have the same technologies from 30 years ago in place on vahicles and I refuse to believe that there hasn't been any significant breakthroughs in engine design since. There's more innovation (real or otherwise) coming from hair care products than anything in the auto industry.
There are so many misconceptions being thrown around in this thread that I don't know where to begin. Let's just start with facts:
A. Ford car quality is now equal to Honda and Toyota. That's per Consumer Reports: [www.leftlanenews.com]
B. The Ford Fusion hybrid that is coming out this spring gets better gas mileage than the Toyota Camry HYBRID, despite what some of you were falsely stating above about the American hybrids not getting as good of gas mileage as Japanese regular cars: [jalopnik.com]
By the way, the Ford Escape/Mercury Mariner hybrid is the most fuel efficient SUV you can buy.
I can't speak much for GM and Chrysler and they're certainly having troubles. But Ford is in the best financial shape of the Big Three and is coming out with high quality, fuel efficient vehicles on par with Japanese autos. Taste it.
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@Kevin Weber:
This is called a \"spin\". One car with a good review doesn't make EVERY Ford as good as Toyota or Honda.
Read between the lines,Ford is trying to market something that is not true.
My 2005 Chevy Cavalier gets better mileage than alot of cars on the road with that said it also happens to be one of the worst cars i've ever owned(car has 70k and i've replaced 2 window motors,1 fuel pump,washer pump,wiper motor) I can't wait to get another car
@Kevin Weber: and one other thing. just cause a US automaker assembles a car somewhere, that doesnt mean that all of the PARTS and engineering and a billion other aspects of a vehicle came from that country.
do you know what tell me when the big 3 make cars in foreign companies while \"foreign\" companies assemble here? it means that the UAW forced the big three out. HOWEVER, since we all know that the assembly cost for a vehicle is just a fraction of the cost for a car, all of you self righteous a-holes trying to self-justify yourselves need to get off of your smug pedestal, stop whining and realize that your NOT HELPING.
*phew* sorry, had to get that off my chest.
@Kevin Weber: Sorry I posted the incorrect reliability article regarding the Consumer Reports survey. Here is the right one: [www.canada.com]
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I buy American, (partially) because I'm ultimately filling the pockets of Americans. Sure, some of that money may be going to rich upper-level execs, but they still buy those expensive yachts made here, houses constructed here, support staff hired here, and kids sent to school here.
But mostly because I like the cars that I lease/buy.
Around three years ago, we were shopping for a new minivan, and pretty much narrowed it down to Honda, Toyota or Chrysler. The Chrysler, fully loaded, with DVD player and everything was $10k cheaper than the basic stripped down Japanese versions ($28k versus $38k and up).
All you are getting in the Japanese models, in theory, is better reliability, but you are talking about 2-3x the repair prices when they do break down.
We ended up getting the Chrysler minivan along with a third party (NON_DEALER!!!!) extended warranty that has us covered bumper to bumper for 10 years or 100k miles, for just an extra $1200.
Easy decision when you actually break down the numbers. And the price disparity has only gotten worse since then.
they don't have what it takes to survive. Time to go the way of the dodo.
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Prices are too high for a gamble. I'd expect MSRP to fall 19% to find buyers. Income has lagged behind car prices. This was ok for those who expected a better future, but it doesn't do anyone any good right now.
Dealers have marketed cars/trucks the same way that real estate brokers market houses. They produce the majority of inventory at top price. Instead of advertising actual cost, they push monthly payment figures that assume perfect credit.
Most of the loans have a longer life than the vehicles they underwrite. Payments do not cover use; there's residual debt on the end.
Unlike homes, the value always declines on a vehicle.
Sorry, but 2 cars for every 1 licensed driver in this crap economy will not be supported without serious subsidies.
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@Joey_Brill: That's a ridiculous standard anyways. Even in a good economy there is little need for most people to have 2 cars.
This problem is the same as the house problem. You can't increase the cost of the item faster than the amount of money people are making and expect things to be ok.
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What the hell does it mean to \"buy American\" anyway? My last \"American\" car was built in Brampton, Ontario (I have relatives there, so I don't mind so much), had a Mitsubishi-built engine, and the vast majority of its parts were made someplace other than here.
My new Altima was, at least, built in the U.S. by actual Americans.
Just want to say that I read Consumerist regularly but live outside the USA. In my country American cars have a mixed name. The build quality of American cars we get here are definitely inferior to other makers in the same or even lower price brackets. The interiors are very plastic and not as hard wearing. Though my brother has had a Chrysler for a long time and has given no mechanical trouble. It is a great car, the only other issue is that American cars (like my brothers) use A LOT more petrol (gas, I think you call it) than most cars here.
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As much fun as buying a new car cheap would be, I'll pass. I have a 1996 Honda Accord that has 150K+ miles on it, gets 28MPG, runs great and is paid off. I'll keep on driving it until the wheels fall off.
Something else to think about when buying a new car: title, tax and license are very expensive on a new vehicle. A used vehicle, even a 1-year old car, has much lower TT&L costs.
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well if you buy things like \"free trade\" coffee perhaps you should. based on the same political mentality these people should care that american workers get things like \"health care\".
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Too bad Delorean got into trouble with that whole coke deal. His cars would've evolved into a superior car of today.
@BeFrugalNotCheap: I know that didn't directly address what you were saying, just pointing it out. Out of curiosity, why do you think the Deloreans of today would have \"evolved into a superior car?\" The DMC-12 was impractical in lots of ways--heavy, underpowered and overpriced.
@BeFrugalNotCheap: Deloreans were made in Northern Ireland. Stephen Wynn's new Houston facility is only going to be producing around 20 DMC-12s per year... I don't think he has any plans to develop any new models (beyond the changes already being made to the DMC-12), and they're not really being mass produced, just made to fill a very small, luxury/novelty demand.
Even though I'm loyal to Toyotas as they never gave trouble to me and anyone I know, I do like Ford cars and trucks very much. Their reliability is much better than that of VWs, and are cheaper. I think trully overrated cars are German ones, especially VW/Audi.
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My father and grandfather always bought American cars. I will always buy American cars. And I will ensure that my children and grandchildren always buy American cars.
To my knowledge, we've never had any problems with any of our Ford or GM cars.
...because you've been in a coma for 40 years?
I'm from Detroit, and my parents and grandparents only ever had American cars...plagued with problems, in and out of service.
In the 70s, they bought crappy econoboxes, Detroit's answer to the oil crisis.
When I bought my first new car, in 2004, I got a Honda Insight hybrid, Honda's answer (in 1999) for people who don't want to pollute or finance terrorism (when oil comes from Saudi Arabia, do you think they give the profits to Christian missionaries feeding starving Africans or to Islamists who fly into buildings, murdering thousands of Americans?).
It's a fantastic car, and once needed a little oil in the left window mechanism to make it work more smoothly. Other than that, I get regular tune-ups and oil changes, and when there's no traffic on the road, I get 65 mpg. About 45 mpg in heavy, stop-and-go city traffic.
I really wish I could've bought American, but when I'm spending more than I've ever spent on anything, I'm buying the best-engineered, least polluting car I can.
As for those who think an American label means American, there are plants in America that make Toyotas, etc. I told a friend that who's in Detroit today, in a rental car that happens to be a Toyota. Two people he saw at a family gathering joked about keying it. Yeah, that's right, vandalism will solve Detroit's lack of innovation and the UAW's stranglehold.
I'm the same way, and not for any rational reason. My dad raised me Catholic, and a loyal customer of UAW made cars. I can't quite shake either of them.
Rational thought seems to be the solution to both problems. You might start with my late pal Al's work -- Albert Ellis, who, with Aaron Beck, founded cognitive behavioral therapy.
Well, if you buy something decent that is American made, like a Cadillac or a Ford Mustang or a Chrysler Muscle Car the at least there will be resale value if the company goes down the tubes. You may have to wait 20 years for it to become a \"classic\" car but you'll probably get more than you paid for it.
Of course in 20 years gasoline vehicles will be outlawed or we will be living in a Mad-Max type post-apocalyptic world.
The only American car that stands the test of time, not to mention is a quality vehicle (I've got a '91 and an '08) is the Jeep Wrangler.
The rest, including Japanese, is junk. Only Jeep owners know the truth. :)
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Read the manga 'Sanctuary' to understand the negative attitude of American cars: national character. American capitalism ensures a continuous supply of spare parts and labor. If cars were built and ran reliably were would all those 'support' jobs go? The same capitalistic attitude prevails in all aspect of America including health care.
As a fan of Robocop I'd love to see Detroit razed to the ground as a monument for human arrogance and exploitation. I'll never buy American as principle.
I have owned 4 Hondas and 3 Toyotas in the last 15 years.None of them have ever been in the shop for a repair nor ever broken down. Just regular maintainence. Also, resale and trade in values have been awesome. A 10 year old Honda is still in the family and running like new. Reputation is huge!
Every American car I've owned (5) were a million times more reliable than any of the european cars I've owned (3), so please stop saying how American cars are junk because your only experience with American cars was a hand me down Chevy Citation before you found Jesus in the form of a Toyota/Honda.
If you want an appliance to get from A to B, yes, the Japanese make your car. However, I have a personality, so it doesn't work for me.
\"Initial quality\" has to be the biggest marketing joke of the last 10 years. Thanks JD Power for dumbing us down and thanks to the big three for latching onto the Initial quality \"tit\" to sell it's product's
Adolf Hitler - \"Best Leader in Initial quality\"
see where i'm going with this
and yes i went there
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@urdoingitwrong: And to chime in that most Americans do not have a clue or the know-how to inspect for \"initial quality\".
Oct 2001: Wife (now ex-wife) and I buy top end Dodge Durango SLT AWD. (This was just before 0% interest rates hit post 9-11 so we get it for msrp of a base model stripped Durango as the dealer believed the economy was dead). The dealership people who sold it could not believe that I complained about dirt flecks on the hoods back edge (white body color) since the suv had sat on their lot since May/June 2001. They cleaned and redetailed the suv for us to pick up.
We go to pick it up and I do the inspection. The sales guy about had a heart attack when I refused delivery due to the shoddy wire harness tie down job on the dealer installed tow package. Hell the mechanic had left the unused plastic zip ties sitting in the windshield wiper area and the tow package harness hanging loose in the engine bay. They had to fix it and wait for me to return in two days for us to pick it up.
Yeah, how about initial quality...
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Unless these companies learn to tell the unions to piss off and die, I will NEVER buy an American car. Hell, they are already getting MY money and everyone else's with this stupid bailout. If you run your business badly, you deserve to fail. If they fail, it opens the door for other companies to step in and fill the demand. That's the way the free market system is supposed to work.
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I drive a used 10-year-old Ford Ranger. My boyfriend drives a used 7-year-old Mitsubishi Mirage. For my money, they're both great vehicles for different reasons. I don't understand people who dismiss all foreign OR domestic cars as pieces of junk.
This question doesn't affect me since I buy low mileage 2 to 3 year old vehicles and drive them until their wheels fall off.
Buying new is tempting with prices this low, but with so much technology in the pipeline, e.g. more efficient hybrids, GM's new small car coming in 2010, and electrics such as the Volt, waiting may make sense.
I have time before I need to buy - my Saturn S series only has 140,000 miles on it. It's an average car except that the S-series are one of the least expensive vehicles to run on the road today. Reliability is excellent, in warm weather I routinely get 42+ MPG, there are no worries about rust, insurance costs are low and they are durable if taken care of. They are easy to work on and parts are readily available.
The problem I have with GM in general is poor engineering - the classic problem in the 90s was the leaky intake manifolds on the 3800 V6s. Poor design and the basic \"tough luck, now get lost\" approach to customer requests for warranty claims.
The 80's were awful - bad rack units, radiator rot, alternators that wouldn't last 60,000 miles, cruise controls that quit working between 60-70,000 miles, bum fuel pumps, wiper motors that had minds of their own and peeling paint.
That said, my wife's 2004 Cadillac DHS is a wonderful car.
I gave up on American cars. I used to be die hard gung ho \"Only buy made in the USA!\" but having owned at least one or two cars from each of the big 3, I'm never buying them again. The cars are crap with Chrysler being the worse of what I've owned. They all crap out under 100k miles. My old Toyota has 300k miles on it and runs fine. Everything still works on it. Hell, my Mustang with only 37k miles has wipers that don't work, crapped out fuel pump and relay module. I think just about everything broke on the Chrysler under 60k miles. I did get 130k miles out of a Saturn before it died. I baby the hell out of my vehilces too. I hope these companies go down iand they all lose their jobs. Yes, seriously. I do not support union mafias. $70 an hour to push buttons or use an air wrench and the car is still a POS is just plain wrong. If you're getting paid that much, and by extension I have to pay more for the vehicle, that thing had better last a few hundred thousand miles and drive like a dream. Hondas and Toyatas are now built by American workers without all the mafia overhead, and they seem to last a lot longer and are just better quality vehicles. And I used to vehemently HATE foreign vehicles!
@jamar0303: Thats an electrical system problem, or your blinker module is dying. HOpe it's the 2nd. much much cheaper.
I'll only buy a new Asian car or a used domestic car with a discount. Like a 2008 Cadillac DTS for 17k I once saw.
People say \"buy American\" for their cars, but over their lifetime they'll probably spend tens of thousands more on other goods made outside of the country.
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It's been my observation, accurate or not, that so many members of the He-Man Big 3 Haters Club have one or more the same basic traits or symptoms: They're male, politically right-leaning, and they typically post to sites like Autoblog, The Truth About Cars, and Jalopnik; They believe Jeremy Clarkson should be knighted. They've ultimately been jilted by the worst example of a 1970s/1980s American made autofunk--think a Pinto, Citation, or a Zephyr--and needlessly apply this hatred to any and every vehicle built this millenium. This crowd ultimately thinks every car should be RWD (not 'wrong wheel drive' as most contemporary cars), have Mustang-like power, Corvette beauty, Lexus-level interior sophistication, BMW handling, and a Hyundai price--and any shortcomings amongst more than one area makes the vehicle in question a failure.
They're politely called 'enthusiasts', and when talking about the automotive needs for the masses, I ignore them--as should most of you.
My characterization is probably gross, but there's a point to doing so. I intentionally contrasted the needs of the enthusiasts versus that of the masses; I believe that, sans a few notable exceptions, that most domestically branded cars could meet the needs of the driving public just fine.
We could sit here and gripe about legroom, interior plastics, road noise, and stuff like that, but c'mon, really. Is there anything a new Toyota Camry can do that a new Ford Fusion or Chevy Malibu or Saturn Aura can't? Maybe there's plenty amongst the tastes of others, but not in my eyes. Depreciation and resale value? Pfft. If its a good car, I'm not getting rid of it. And any repair work would STILL be cheaper than another note.
To each his or her own, but do your diligent research and not simply an impractical bias.
@BlazerUnit: Thank you for the observation. It seems like that is pretty accurate. These folks do not remember cars which lasted only 80,000 miles and now expect all cars to run out to 150,000 miles without a single squeak.
My family had a friend in the 1970's/1980's who was happy when he bought his Chevy Citation which he loved as it was far more reliable, warm, and waterproof than his 1960's/1970's Triumphs. It all depends on your point of view.
I used to own American cars (Ford only), but got sick of everything going wrong as soon as you get to 50k miles. I've had 3 new VW's in a row and have been happy even though they are a little more expensive.
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I kinda have to laugh: expect big depreciation, set aside a ton of money for repairs, and yet...American cars are not inferior? Also, the great deals never seem all that great.
Like 50% more depreciation, and you save like 20% at the start.
@Saboth: One should not base the car's value on \"depreciation\" - why not lease if that is your only concern? Otherwise buy new and run it into the ground and recover all that \"depreciation\" along the way of driving the car...
@econobiker: I shake my head at the one-sided focus on resale value and depreciation. ALL cars are money losing purchases, from your grimiest G6 to your shiniest Sonata. Your point about running newly purchased cars into the ground makes more financial sense than worrying about future resale value. Unless your upgrade vehicle is dramatically safer and more technologically advanced, you're just keeping up with the Joneses.
And buying pre-owned is even better. This IS Consumerist, isn't it? Thumb through your Consumer Reports and find every domestically-branded vehicle on their 'Best Bets' list. There's your start. And here's how to expand it: Pay special attention to the 'Used Cars to Avoid' list. There's likely a swath of domestic cars that made neither the Best nor the Avoid list. Make a note of their diagnostic flaws, decide which ones are worth gambling on, and haggle on price appropriately. Depreciation works in your favor too.
At our family Christmas gathering, the only two American-branded vehicles were my dad's Ford Ranger and my cousin's Dodge Caliber rental. The rest of the cars? Toyota Highlander, Toyota RAV-4, Toyota Land Cruiser, Saab 9-3, Nissan XTerra, Mazda Protege and two Subaru Outbacks. Yes, some of those were assembled in the USA, but it's kind of sad to think that out of our small sample, only 20% of the vehicles were American.
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Even if the Big Three do go Chapter 11, I think they will still make parts for their older cars, because that's where the money really is. If they go Chapter 7 (unlikely), then someone(s) will pick up the slack on making parts, as it's a huge market. There are already many aftermarket parts manufacturers - expect more to open shop if that happens.
@Urgleglurk: the parts business in the aftermarket is too competitive. The genuine parts manufacturing depends on large, consistent orders.
The aftermarket parts are always dealing with lowballers, off shore knock offs, and untested generics.
@Urgleglurk: i just bought a new car, and though i would never consider any of the Big Three (I'm a Toyota loyalist, and have never liked any \"American\" car I've driven) I did consider the price value...seems to me that this would last for awhile, yes, but eventually these business would die out before the cars did. My thought was - I might own a Ford Pinto that still runs, but what if I had to fix it? Could I? Probably. Would it be ridiculously expensive? Probably. As demand lessens, so will the supply, of course.
@Urgleglurk: the problem is that a lot of the part manufacturing is outsourced to small family-owned machine shops (<50 employees). these are the big 3's biggest creditors right now & many of them will be wiped out with a bankruptcy filing.