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WBrink

December 23, 2008 6:55 PM

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Well, to be fair to the folks at JP Morgan Chase, they didn't need the emergency cash infusion. Everybody was getting a handout, and the company took one. For navigating that company and coming out the way the bank did, he certainly deserves some bonuses.

2 replies

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sega8800

December 23, 2008 7:56 PM

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@WBrink: if they didn't need any money, why do we give it to them? uh...

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December 23, 2008 8:09 PM

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Ostensibly to lend the money? TARP's purpose is to stimulate lending - it's not some banking welfare program. That's why the consistent characterization of a \"bailout\" is so laughable.

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December 23, 2008 8:46 PM

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@ADismalScience: Yeah, look how that turned out. TARP's intent may have been to stimulate lending, but they did a shitty job of crossing their Ts and dotting their Is and now the banks are using it to buy up other banks. It's a bailout.

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TechnoDestructo

December 23, 2008 6:56 PM

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Gee, apparently they just didn't get enough perks, and must have been too busy worrying about how they were going to pay their bills and other things to focus on their jobs. I propose we double it next year.

2 replies

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Oranges w/ Cheese hates what Christmas has become

December 23, 2008 8:21 PM

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@TechnoDestructo: Or feed their children and clothe them and put gas in their car so they can get to work, right?

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December 24, 2008 4:47 PM

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@Oranges w/ Cheese:

Something tells me that the executives at these financial institutions aren't on the bleeding edge of feeding their children or filling up the gas in their car. To imply that they are living under the same financial hardships and constraints as the average blue-collar worker is a bit disingenuous. I don't see these guys sitting down at the dinner table with the spouse and deciding whether to pay the electricity bill this month or continue to have the \"luxury\" of a heated home in the harsh east coast winter.

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wunami

December 24, 2008 8:46 PM

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@Citizen Kang: Clearly they don't. But regular people do and regular people didn't get a bailout...in fact, they paid for it. Which is pretty much Techno and Orange's point. It's not disingenuous...it's sarcasm. You're on the internetz now.

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December 23, 2008 6:58 PM

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I love how this article is right above the post about an infulx of shoplifting because people can't afford their basic household supplies at Wal-Mart...

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December 23, 2008 6:58 PM

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What a case of bullshit and we are still not being told where all the money went. I particularly like Goldman Sachs explaining that the executives needed more time to focus on their jobs. If that's what paying attention to your job does than STOP!

3 replies

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hustler

December 23, 2008 7:19 PM

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Henry Paulison had this planned all along. Lehman failed for a reason...because Goldman Sach's ex-CEO is driving the bus and can kill the competition from the executive branch.

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humphrmi

December 23, 2008 7:11 PM

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@aftercancer: To be fair, Goldman made money off the counterparty postions from securitized mortgages and only recently went into the red due to the market, not their own actions.

And yeah, they took bailout money - the problem with bailouts is that it puts those that don't take the money into a competitive disadvantage against their rivals who do. So it would have been stupid not to. But that money didn't exactly \"save\" Goldman.

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December 29, 2008 4:05 PM

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@humphrmi: How about this: It's disgusting that they are set up to make these kind of perks to begin with, regardless of whether or not they used money from the bail out.

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ilovemom

December 23, 2008 7:06 PM

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I'm sure some of that money will eventually trickle down to us peasants to buy some bread to go with our stolen ketchup packet tomato soup. Have faith.

5 replies

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jdhuck

December 23, 2008 8:58 PM

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@ilovemom: The bad part is that my family has seriously cut back from the frivolous lifestyle we once had. I had to switch back to the full sodium Campbells soup. We also cut 1 can of soup with cans of water, down from the two cans of water we used to be able to afford.
Next week I plan on fighting the birds for their bread in the park.

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TechnoDestructo

December 24, 2008 12:27 AM

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@jdhuck: Birds are made in large part out of meat, you know. Goes good with bread.

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December 23, 2008 7:34 PM

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. . .and the flashlight I'll have to strap to the front of the car to stand in for the burnt-out headlight I can't afford to replace.

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weakdome

December 23, 2008 8:34 PM

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@HogwartsAlum: HID bulbs suck, man. I hear that.

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hustler

December 23, 2008 7:16 PM

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eventually we will chop their heads off with the Madame Guillotine.

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December 23, 2008 7:06 PM

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I still like the idea that for the auto bailout, every househould should get a free overstock vehichle from one of the big three (like a subcompact, Chevy Aveo or something). That way we feel like we are getting something back, they move stock, and end up generating profit on the mantinence. Of course that would never happen, that's like the idea of the bank bailout resulting in people's mortgages being forgiven.

We give the money, but don't get anything back. Like bad first date.

4 replies

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TechnoDestructo

December 24, 2008 12:28 AM

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The small cars aren't the ones they're really having trouble moving.

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jdhuck

December 23, 2008 8:59 PM

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@AlteredBeast: I agree. At least let me cop a feel. If I am getting the shaft, let me die a happy man!

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Oranges w/ Cheese hates what Christmas has become

December 23, 2008 8:21 PM

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@AlteredBeast: I think more people would die from driving these sub-par cars then you would like to realize.

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wunami

December 24, 2008 8:51 PM

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@Oranges w/ Cheese: Yes. I think those executives might kill themselves if they had to drive a sub-par car. Kill themselves because they can't focus on their jobs anymore.

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dtmoore

December 23, 2008 7:09 PM

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*disclaimer - i'm not saying these people aren't dumbasses*

Now I understand that these people may have made some bad decisions, but I still don't get why people complain about CEO salaries. If they are paid that much it is because the company board decides they are worth that much.

Look at a company like Merril Lynch. In 2007 they lost 7.8 billion dollars. Now blame or reasons for this aside if a smart CEO can cut losses by .1% thats 78 million dollars he saved the company.

If you look at it this way you can see why these companies will pay these top people to run their companies, it can be a good investment for the board of directors.

6 replies

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CRNewsom

December 23, 2008 8:35 PM

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@dtmoore: I'm pretty sure that your math is off on that one:

.1% x 7.8 billion = 7.8 million NOT 78 million

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December 23, 2008 7:52 PM

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@dtmoore: news flash: they really aren't worth that much. the explosion in executive compensation has largely been due to the massive hauls by fund managers. how can JPM or BAC pay their executive ONLY a few million when a simple fund manager is making $25-30 million?

c'mon, seriously. 1 person worth the salary of 500, 1000, 10,000 average workers within a company? that's ludicrous.

well, hopefully everything will fix itself. obviously fund managers aren't raking in the dough these days & it's doubtful that the easy money will return there. & now these packages are exposed for what they really are - bullshit. a huge, smelly pile of bullshit.

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December 23, 2008 7:25 PM

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@dtmoore: I'm sure most people would agree that the CEOs deserve a fair salary. I think what irks people is that they don't just get a fair salary, they get clever tax avoiding pay in the form of bonuses and options which seem to far exceed their actual salary by an order of magnitude or two. Not to mention people are generally confused why a CEO deserves a bonus when the company has failed under their leadership. I know I don't get any performance related pay if I don't perform.

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December 23, 2008 7:28 PM

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@sir_eccles: If you own a company and let a bunch of your friends decide how much you should be paid, do you really think you'd get a bad deal?

Boards of Directors are a big part of the problem.

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ARP

December 23, 2008 7:57 PM

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@dragonfire81: Its a circle jerk (not the band, for you old school punks). CEO's serve on the boards of other companies and approve whatever outrageous salaries they ask for because they get the same treatment in kind. So, even creating a wall between the CEO and the board creates the same results. I say we tax the hell out of any heavy duty salaries/bonuses (cause they won't get lowered) and at least give us peasants schools, better transporatation infrastructure, health care, something.

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December 23, 2008 9:12 PM

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@ARP: maybe not the band, but i'm sure at least one of their songs is appropriate:

do you feel strange?
walking down the street
this might be your unfortunate day
not proud of your past
you burned a few
now you're cooking
in your own stew

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December 23, 2008 7:19 PM

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@dtmoore: The point is that they don't need to be getting paid that much with MY money. If the board wants to pay the CEOs this way with their OWN profits, well more power to them. But when they have failed miserably and are begging for help, they should be keeping their business running at the bare bones level, not lavishing their clearly unqualified execs with luxuries and perks.

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jst07

December 23, 2008 7:17 PM

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The bitch of this situation though is that in some cases (not all), that board is appointed by the person that they pay.

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Saboth

December 23, 2008 7:11 PM

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I also love how Citigroup got a bailout to free up credit, and they respond by doubling people's interest rates immediately.

Also funny how they act like these morons are some kind of demi-gods floating in brain space figuring out complex calculations or something. \"They must be driven everywhere in a special pod, in order to maximize their \"brain algorythms\". PUHLEASE. These guys aren't any smarter than your average college grad, just do a GREAT job of bamboozling people.

\"Wah-hey! I have a revelation! I have awoken from my deep sleep to bring you these instructions from beyond: to combat our falling sales, we will fire all of our experienced salesmen, bring in temps and new-hires, cut wages and benefits, and watch sales skyrocket!\"

\"All hail the master planner!\"

1 replies

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December 23, 2008 9:13 PM

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@Saboth: Just like the airlines got tax breaks so they could lay people off.

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December 23, 2008 7:11 PM

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Over 200k to commute from Chicaco to NY, why can't these executives uproot their precious family, just like normal people do, or, I don't know, don't take the job??

4 replies

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ZukeZuke

December 23, 2008 11:45 PM

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@cristiana: Nice CARBON FOOTPRINT.

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ravensfire

December 23, 2008 7:55 PM

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@cristiana: Lots of \"Normal People\" work one place while their families live another. I know several people that do that. They have to go where the work is but they don't want to interrupt their families life: kid's schools, friends etc., proximity to extended family, or maybe their families quality of life would drastically decrease near work due to a higher cost of living. So they have a place to stay near work and commute home every weekend. The difference between these people and CEOs is they either commute by driving or fly on commercial airlines.

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December 23, 2008 8:08 PM

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@ravensfire:
Yeah, I omitted a few key things in my rant. My key point was that the guy commuted on a private jet, and I assume he did it most every day. I wasn't trying to knock the real people who do live one place and have their family stay in another.

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Ash78 ain't got time to bleed

December 23, 2008 7:16 PM

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@cristiana: Always wondered that myself. My dad did the commute thing for about 18 months once (airlines, in coach, every other weekend) because the company needed his expertise and he didn't want to take my brother and me out of school (aged 12 and 8) and move us out of state. We ultimately did, though.

But I'm hard-pressed to believe in an industry like this that they JUST CAN'T find anyone else in NYC who can do the job locally and for less money...

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ironchef

December 23, 2008 7:12 PM

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and you wonder why communism is making a comeback.

1 replies

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December 23, 2008 7:29 PM

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So, in that case should we prepare the 20 million graves now, or later?

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hustler

December 23, 2008 7:13 PM

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so the Bush administration has gone from \"no-bid\" contracting to \"just giving\" their friend's cash...after they let the competition fail, of course. No one referenced here is a dumbass, they most likely know what they are doing and had this planned all along.

The United States of America is dead.

1 replies

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Oranges w/ Cheese hates what Christmas has become

December 23, 2008 8:23 PM

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@hustler: Nah, we just got the USSA from the old administration instead of from the one coming in January like everyone wanted us to believe.

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December 23, 2008 7:17 PM

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of the three mentioned, Merrill Lynch is the only one that was really run into the gutter, and it was basically on his predecessor's watch. i'm not defending their pay, it's excessive, but Goldman just posted it's first ever quarterly loss in a horrible market,so you could argue the CEO's done a good job. You could argue Dimon's done a good job as well. the CEO's people should be grumbling about are at countrywide, wachovia, wash mutual, etc

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December 23, 2008 7:17 PM

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Like I've said quite a few times, they didn't care about what these fools did with their money (even though they are in the BUSINESS of money, and could not RUN THEIR BUSINESS...you'd think they would have wanted a thorough action plan and restrictions on this crap like they demanded of the auto industry (who they STILL turned down in the end!)

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December 23, 2008 7:23 PM

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Matthew 19:23-24

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Rob Weddle

December 23, 2008 7:30 PM

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Welcome to the new plutocracy, same as the old plutocracy.

2 replies

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December 23, 2008 8:22 PM

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@Rob Weddle: that's it? no catchy \"2.0\" at the end? no expensive firework show nor multi-million dollar ad campaign using geeks & hipsters to create some sort of non-existent metaphor?

man. what a let down.

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Rob Weddle

December 23, 2008 8:34 PM

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@mac-phisto: Look, unless you're a CEO, times are hard and glitz ain't free.

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SacraBos

December 23, 2008 7:31 PM

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Okay $1.6B out of $700B is only about 0.2%. In the scheme of things, not too big of a deal.

But still, it really sucks. When you decide to not use a credit card because you're tired of paying these fat-cats fees, the government takes your money anyway and gives it to them.

1 replies

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Saboth

December 23, 2008 7:32 PM

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I'm not really sure why they deserve one penny of my tax dollars as restitution, quite honestly.

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ravensfire

December 23, 2008 7:37 PM

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How is this news? I thought everyone already knew that executives are very well compensated, sometimes unrightly so such as when they take a perfectly good company and send it careening to the ground with their bad decisions.

More importantly, these figures are mostly, if not all, from last year. The Banking Industry was still in denial about how bad things were. Everyone was saying \"things will be better soon.\" Of course everyone knows now what they should have been doing with some of the money they gave the executives, but hindsight is 20/20.

2008 is probably going to look scandalous as well since everyone still seemed in denial until their compadres started falling one by one; that's when the screaming started. I think 2009 will be the year we really get to see the impact that the bailout has had on America's companies.

2 replies

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December 23, 2008 7:45 PM

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@ravensfire: Do you really think the banking industry was in denial? Or they were TELLING everyone they were?
I just don't believe that people who make their living in the banking industry didn't believe this was all going to happen.
Seems like it was more, \"shit I better take as much as I can before the bottom falls out!\" than \"whoops the economy tanked, who saw that coming?!\"

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December 24, 2008 4:46 PM

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@veronykah:
Thank you. I'm glad someone else is seeing that... It's too big for me to keep track of, but I hope that in a few years someone will be able to reconstruct the flows of money and figure out just who was profiting from this crisis - before it happened, because they were warned at the same time that they were telling everyone that the market could only go up.

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jryan

December 23, 2008 7:55 PM

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\"...Okay $1.6B out of $700B is only about 0.2%. In the scheme of things, not too big of a deal...\"

Yeah, you are correct, and:
$16M out of $700B is only about 0.002%. In the scheme of things, this is really REALLY nothing, so why not PAY me this $16M??

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frodo_35

December 23, 2008 8:11 PM

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If it is a public company we should be able to pass laws that tie exec pay to profits or the one I like the lowest paid employee. Lets see which elected crooks will get off the tit and do something good for America and not their reelection fund.

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December 23, 2008 8:19 PM

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Is it too late to become a highly-paid bank exec? Because I'm totally free for the next few weeks...

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chauncy that billups

December 23, 2008 8:38 PM

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If you don't like this, there's a solution in a couple years. Do yourself a favor and vote against any representative or senator who voted in favor of this boondoggle.

1 replies

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MrEvil

December 24, 2008 1:56 AM

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@bilups: Already did, and FAILED, unfortunately there's too many retards around my area that can't see past the (R) or the (D) next to a candidate's name and vote straight ticket.

Who cares what ideology the competition subscribes to when the current chowderhead is in need of firing anyway? Hell, if the competition turns out to be so bad it's not going to be that long before you can fire his ass too!

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dtmoore

December 23, 2008 9:27 PM

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sometimes I wish windows calculator had commas :D

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maciejb

December 23, 2008 10:00 PM

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@dtmoore: I agree.. you couldn't pay me enough to be a CEO of a large corporation. I like my blood pressure right where it is.

1 replies

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TheSpatulaOfLove

December 24, 2008 3:22 AM

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Just give me half of what they're making and I'll do it. Who cares about your blood pressure when you're making THAT MUCH to fuck up the company?

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December 23, 2008 10:19 PM

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OFF WITH THEIR HEADS!

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December 23, 2008 10:47 PM

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This story makes me sick. These \"executives\" are nothing more than modern day royalty: stealing money they don't deserve.

Makes me jealous, too.

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Mr-Mr

December 23, 2008 10:58 PM

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Who's surprised by this? After all, politicians give themselves raises every year. So, they all hook each other up without the regular folks having the chance to approve it. DC takes care of Wall Street, because it's Wall Street that takes care of them when they're done with politics.

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December 23, 2008 11:12 PM

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First off, be very mad at these banks for thinking they're entitled to bailout funds after this kind of extravagant wastefulness. Second, be even madder at your senators and congressmen who voting for the bailout. When you throw money at a problem instead of attacking the root cause of the problem, things like this always happen.

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December 24, 2008 1:16 AM

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We need to get together get out the torches and pitchforks and have us a roast sadly we as Americans just let everyone walk all over us know a days except manish looking woman who walk all over us men and the country to get what they want

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Trai_Dep

December 24, 2008 2:20 AM

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What's $1.6B divided by a couple ten-thousand autoworkers?
Oh. Sorry. They're BANKERS. They've earned every penny!

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Toby Boyce

December 24, 2008 3:48 AM

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Are CEOs overpaid? Maybe. As others have said, it isn't a job I want. I run my own company and trying to keep my one employee - me - on track is hard enough.

As public companies, these CEOs were hired to do one thing: improve stock price. And until this year, they did that very-very well.

Whenever a system becomes overloaded in one direction - i.e. focus on the Stock market only - it will collapse on itself and start over.

2008 salaries and bonuses have been established already. When we see the 2009 numbers, that's when we'll know how the corporations have responded to the market.

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arl84

December 24, 2008 5:46 AM

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Merryl Lynch did not receive bailout money. What a misleading article.

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Michael H. Millonig

December 24, 2008 6:41 AM

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Sigh.........................sigh, I have come to the conclusion that nothing can fix the corrupt, and that the only thing that I can do anymore is make my little corner of this world a decent place to live, f%*k everyone else

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December 24, 2008 6:29 PM

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These fat cats need to realize that us \"rank and file\" workers are only going to put up with this shit to a certain extent.

The more they take, the less we are inclined to do good work for them.

They need to wake up and smell the impending revolt.

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Vilmar Simson

December 30, 2008 6:40 PM

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I'm still clueless on how companies thing that rewarding a director with a million dollar bonus but firing 2,000 solves a problem.

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