var json_comments = new Array("
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concordia
December 9, 2008 5:49 PM
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Why is anyone using TurboTax after it was revealed that Intuit was resorting to rootkit-esque techniques to protect their software?

You can pull that bullshit only once before I'll never trust you again.

Just go online and use a web-based tool for things like this, people.

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8 replies
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Sian
December 10, 2008 1:50 AM
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@concordia: As a State Farm customer I'm offered free filing via turbo tax online through State Farm's website. It's a great little freebie.

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mmcnary
December 10, 2008 1:13 AM
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@concordia: I sent them a letter indicating my displeasure at the rootkit stuff and actually got a call from an executive assistant who assured me that they were removing the DRM from the product for the next year.

And they did.

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Verucalise (Est.February2008)
December 9, 2008 10:20 PM
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@concordia: I've been using www.taxslayer.com for 4-5 years now, haven't looked back, doesn't cost me more than $10-20 a year. Who the hell would pay that much money to prepare a simple tax return? NOT ME, that's who.

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mac-phisto
December 10, 2008 12:39 PM
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@verucalise: i've been using taxactonline for the past 3-4 years & it could be free, but i'm a lazy ass & so i pay ~$8 to have them load in any pertinent information from the previous year.

it would cost me another $14 if i also filed state thru them, but CT income tax is free & easy to e-file thru the ct.gov website.

take that turbotax!

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MikeGrenade
December 9, 2008 8:40 PM
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@concordia: I remember that whole mess. Their Amazon rating got wrecked for that little stunt as well.

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twritersf
December 9, 2008 7:37 PM
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@concordia: A link to a nearly 6-year-old assertion is hardly authoritative, certainly not relevant, and indicative of a long-held grudge, which greatly diminishes the comment's credibility.

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oldtaku
December 9, 2008 10:18 PM
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@twritersf: It certainly is relevant. Intuit has a long history of screwing their customers like this, and the only reason they backed off was the damage it did to their business. The copy protection fiasco was also the reason I stopped using TurboTax for good. Why use them when there are so many other options? That $18 fee for e-file is pretty amusing as well, I'm glad they're proud of not screwing you as hard as they did last year... maybe?

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tc4b
December 9, 2008 8:08 PM
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@twritersf: You must've missed this part: \"You can pull that bullshit only once before I'll never trust you again.\" I'm also member of the 'Fool me once...' society, especially when it comes to something so important.

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Ash78 ain't got time to bleed
December 9, 2008 5:52 PM
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TaxCut has always been better, IMHO...but even they have been hiking rates the last few years. But I still think it's a small price to pay (~$85-$100 for software and state/federal e-filing) for the peace of mind and electronic backup copies.


A lot of people have told me that the online version is the way to go, but I have data ownership and backup fears (probably irrational).

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3 replies
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themicah
December 9, 2008 10:55 PM
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@The Name's Ash78, Housewares: Of course, not to be out-sleazed by Intuit, H&R Block has quietly stripped the \"+State+eFile\" version of TaxCut of free state efiling (it still includes federal efile, but not state). You'll pay $20 for the privilege of relieving a state employee from the burden of retyping each return.

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valarmorghulis
December 9, 2008 8:23 PM
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@The Name's Ash78, Housewares: Data ownership and backup fears are almost never irrational.

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johnva
December 9, 2008 10:12 PM
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@valarmorghulis: What may be irrational, though, is assuming that the online version will have more of those problems than the non-online version.

As far as backup, you should always save the completed return as a PDF and print a paper copy. If it's in a format not controlled by the software, like PDF, then they can't prevent you from accessing it in the future.

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valarmorghulis
December 9, 2008 11:00 PM
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@johnva: Steps can be taken to mitigate these risks, but methods requiring transportation (even electronic) over non-secure lines increases your risk profile with each leg of the process. Since \"online\" almost always refers to the internet, which communicates over un0secured lines, it isn't an assumption that online has more risks than offline. It is a simple fact.


Don't get me wrong here, I'm not advocating any sort of digital agoraphobia. I'm just stating people should be aware that the lines they communicate across are not secure. It is absolutly possible however to make what is being communicated secure. Just be aware.

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johnva
December 9, 2008 11:55 PM
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@valarmorghulis: If it's encrypted, the risk of it being intercepted in communication is not very high (assuming you check all the security certificates, etc). And all of these tax prep websites are all encrypted. The fact that it's online doesn't make it much more of a huge risk. SSL can provide essentially a secure channel between you and them.

The bigger threats to the security of your data are either a) the company's servers being compromised, or b) your own computer being compromised via spyware, malware, etc. The malware threat is actually probably a higher risk than the risk of Intuit, etc's servers being breached and your information stolen that way. And if your machine has malware, your data is not going to be secure regardless of whether you use the online or desktop versions. I would worry about that much more than I would worry about someone intercepting your data in transit on the Internet.

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valarmorghulis
December 10, 2008 12:35 AM
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@johnva: Well said. I never intended to question Intuit's security measures (indeed, the gov't already did that with SOX). I'm just stating that sending data over the internet carries inherient risks that can be mitigated, but never entirely blocked. So I, personally, have no concerns about using TurboTax and having my data be compromised in transit or at reception (and yes, the most likly point of interception is the local machine).


In general though, a machine that has never been connected to a public network will be more secure than one that has. That was all.

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chris_l
December 9, 2008 5:53 PM
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They're charging you to print something? Can I ask how?

I can understand why they charge for e-filing. They have to put up the servers, build the infrastructure to file tens of millions of taxes, etc. But printing doesn't use ANY of that. I spend now $60 in software that basically asks me questions and based on my answers auto-populates a PDF file. There is no additional load put on Intuit whether I file 1 or 1000 tax returns if I print them. My printer, my ink, my paper and a stamp should be the only cost after buying the software to do my taxes.

I never e-File because I'm in no rush to pay the government money faster. It looks like they'll be even more people pirating Turbotax in 09.

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13 replies
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bmeighan
December 10, 2008 12:11 AM
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@chris_l: The $9.95 fee includes FEDERAL and STATE preparation and printing and/or federal e-filing. There really are costs associated with preparing additional returns. They include technical support (\"how do I\" questions), use of our cost basis calculator, use the e-filing services, archival of their returns in our vault, access prior year returns, etc. These services, the infrastructure and support require investments.

We believe that TurboTax remains a great deal, and as always, satisfaction is guaranteed. But if for any reason you don't believe you're getting your money's worth, we will refund the $9.95 fee(s) without question. Right now we're in the process of creating an automated, online process to make this quick and easy for any customer for whatever reason. This satisfaction guarantee is nothing new, but we want every customer to know that they can purchase TurboTax with confidence.

Bob Meighan
VP, TurboTax

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bohemian
December 10, 2008 2:32 AM
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@bmeighan: Wow, PR schmaltz. I hope that was someone playing a joke. If someone is actually a VP for a major company and thinks that would come off as something other than insulting they need to get out in the real world a bit more.

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ultimatecardsfan
December 9, 2008 9:21 PM
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@chris_l: Nothing to do with taxes, but it also seriously pisses me off that TicketMaster charges $2.50 to let you print your own tickets to an event. What extra expense do THEY incur by letting you print your own?

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valarmorghulis
December 9, 2008 11:02 PM
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@ultimatecardsfan: Having to write the code that allows you to do so without them being ripped off. Normally that'd just be the cost of doing business, but it is Ticketmaster.

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Rider
December 9, 2008 7:45 PM
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@chris_l:So you just admitted your mom has been using turbo tax illegally and now you are wondeing why they have to limit the amount of returns. Wow.

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bravo369
December 9, 2008 8:42 PM
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@Rider: Well I am trying to find out what version she buys. I am looking at the turbotax website and there are at least 5 different versions. you would ASSUME that there would be at least 1 version that allows you to file a few returns for free. it really makes no sense that my mom does 4 tax returns (parents and 3 kids) and get charged extra.


i'm racking my brain to find 1 similar program that generates a report/document but charges extra to generate a new report/document. Adobe acrobat, photoshop, dreamwever, Microsoft word, excel. do those boxed Will makers or lease makers only let you create only one? I wouldn't think so.

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valarmorghulis
December 9, 2008 8:32 PM
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@Rider: I imagine you were trying to @bravo369. If so, they never said their mom stole the software. Only that she used it to fill out more than one person's tax return. This is like using Outlook to recieve email from more than one source, or being able to send an email to more than one reciepient. The closest metaphore I can come up with is that Intuit is trying to turn TurboTax into Pay-Per-Tax with a heafty install fee. It isn't that she was stealing it before, it's just that now she will have to pay more with no increase in usability or functionality.

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Rider
December 10, 2008 9:20 AM
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@valarmorghulis: No it's not like outlook it's software that come with a license to let 5 people use it. It's all about the license.

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bravo369
December 9, 2008 7:12 PM
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@chris_l: I want to know how they can charge for printing also. my mom does all this tax stuff for a living. She uses turbotax at home (away from work) and does the entire family's, friends, among others. so does she now have to relay a cost to everyone? what next? microsoft is going to start charging for every word document i create? nero charges for every cd i burn? it makes absolutely no sense. I can understand a charge for efiling but for using my own printer, paper, stamps and energy to mail it? cmon now...that's just stupid.

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mac-phisto
December 10, 2008 12:50 PM
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@bravo369: i think your mom is exactly the reason intuit made this move. i know more than one individual that was filing returns for friends, family members & others (sometimes for profit) simply by picking up a copy of turbotax & filing away.

now, i would certainly consider your mom's use among family members \"fair use\", but when you start sharing the software's benefits among friends, co-workers, & others, you're starting to stretch the bounds of fair, don't you think?

don't get me wrong, intuit sucks & this is a crappy move, but i can certainly understand it.

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bravo369
December 10, 2008 1:56 PM
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@mac-phisto: That's where I disagree. Would it be beyond fair use to have my friend come use microsoft office to write up their term paper and create their powerpoint presentation? how about if they want to come use my photoshop to edit a few pictures? while I now know what the turbotax license says, it still makes no sense in my mind if you are printing out the end product. either way, I've warned her already and she's considering buying taxcut instead.

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Rider
December 11, 2008 3:42 AM
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@bravo369: You keep bringing in the same lame strawman argument. Your mom bought a piece of software with a license for 5 uses. Your mom broke the law by using it for more than 5 uses. The company decided to make it so that your mom could no longer do this. End of story. How other companies allow people to use their products is irrelevant.

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mac-phisto
December 10, 2008 6:16 PM
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@bravo369: i don't necessarily disagree with your mom's use of the product - letting friends use the software may be stretching fair use, but it's not unconscionable - provided she wasn't charging for the service.

but understand that there were people setting up tax prep businesses around a single copy of turbotax - i know people that were doing this. is that a fair use of the product? i don't think so. will this stop them? probably not, b/c you can still print unlimited prep docs (which are most likely just the filing forms with a big VOID on them). it just means they'll have to sit in front of a typewriter or augment the software with fill-in forms.

so while i personally think you're mom's use is perfectly acceptable, i can understand from a business standpoint why intuit would try to limit filing for multiple users.

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bravo369
December 9, 2008 7:21 PM
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@bravo369: I also might add that since she does taxes all the time, she flies through returns like an expert. For someone simple like me (no house, no big purchases, no big investments), she can do my return in 10-15 minutes. she has all my info from previous years so she just has to import it, update, print and mail. does that really warrant $10 for 10 minutes of work?

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parkavery
December 9, 2008 6:31 PM
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@chris_l: I don't get it either. I've always sent paper returns, as has everyone in my household. When I was living at home (this is a few years ago), my dad would buy one copy of Turbo Tax and use it to file returns for him/mom, me and my sister. Three paper returns - no e-filing. I don't think that's an egregious overuse of the software.

The only thing I can think is that they're charging for extra returns because of piracy, but how exactly do they track how many returns the software has run and how do they bill the additional $9.95? (If you're paper filing, you might be doing so because you're not techie enough for e-filing, so online payment is out.)

Too many unanswered questions...

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YeaYuh
December 9, 2008 6:01 PM
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@chris_l:


The online places I have e-filed with have allowed you to choose a date to pay the goverment if you owe. So you can still file it in February and pay in April.

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Ash78 ain't got time to bleed
December 9, 2008 6:08 PM
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@YeaYuh: True. I always file on time but pay the Feds on Apr 15. And claim my state refund immediately (usually early Feb).

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Avery
December 9, 2008 5:56 PM
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In 2004 or so my state let me e-file on their website for free. Now that service has been \"discontinued\" and they direct me to several pay services instead. Gee, I wonder what the incentive was to take away that feature?

Luckily, with Obama's commitment to bringing government services online, there could be some sunshine down the road for e-filing...

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4 replies
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Hooray4Zoidberg
December 9, 2008 7:25 PM
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@Avery: What state? I remember in MA we had free state filing at first too, then sure enough, gonzo and we were \"invited\" to file via turbo tax for free the first year. The free part meant the omission of the $9.99 state filing fee, we still had to pay $40 for turbo tax. That was only one year, then after that they started charging again to file.

It's getting out of hand, I'm spending more on tax software than I'm getting back these days. I might as go back to the old Tele file which is still free I believe. Unless turbo tax's board has lobbied washington to get rid of that.

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psm321
December 9, 2008 8:57 PM
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@Hooray4Zoidberg: Funny you should say that... the IRS got rid of telefile ~3 years ago, probably after lobbying from the tax software companies.

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Avery
December 9, 2008 8:47 PM
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@Hooray4Zoidberg: Indeed, this was in Massachusetts. I had a minimal income so I didn't need to buy TurboTax either; I simply put my W3 directly into the online app.

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Triterion
December 9, 2008 6:42 PM
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@Avery: California still let's you file on their website for free. I use that and TurboTax's Federal for 100% freeness.

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GuJiaXian
December 9, 2008 5:56 PM
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Maybe I'm odd, but I'm only 30 and I've never electronically filed. There's something oddly satisfying (yes, and masochistic) about wading through a 1040, a Schedule A, and more by hand with nothing but a pen and a calculator.

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5 replies
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ajlei
December 9, 2008 11:09 PM
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@GuJiaXian: I've never e-filed either. I actually enjoy doing my taxes by hand. Of course, I've never had anything particularly complicated to take into account, so I guess we'll see what happens when I make a million dollars with all my offshore accounts.. I guess that's when I'll just stop doing my taxes altogether.

Seriously, though, I love my pen and paper and TI-84Plus.

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Wild Monkey
December 9, 2008 7:26 PM
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@GuJiaXian: Just hope you never have to deal with AMT. Then you'll be doing multiple returns at the same time to see which one you have to use.

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crashedpc
December 9, 2008 6:08 PM
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@GuJiaXian: Hey, nothing beats the feeling of working out something by hand by yourself. Speaking as an engineer, here.

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TheSpatulaOfLove
December 9, 2008 6:53 PM
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@crashedpc:

Do you use your trusty slide rule for your taxes as well?

When I was a young buck, I got pwned by an old engineer and his slide rule. That was a big cup of STFU I had to swallow...

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Applekid
December 9, 2008 7:01 PM
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@TheSpatulaOfLove: I wish there was a clear tutorial on how to USE a slide rule... and a place to get one. I want to wow those that shout at me to get off their lawn that, yeah, I too can play with the big boys.

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crashedpc
December 9, 2008 7:10 PM
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@Applekid: Whoo, I'm not old enough for a slide rule. I have my TI-86 that I used in high school that's at least 8 years old. For taxes, I use an abacus and lamb entrails.

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Ash78 ain't got time to bleed
December 9, 2008 6:00 PM
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@GuJiaXian: The one big advantage to software is the ability to tweak your numbers to arrive at a desired result.


I'm NOT talking about cheating here, for the record ;)


IRA contributions are a good example, since they can be made in 2009 for the 2008 tax year. Plug in the number, see the result, and decide what you want to do.


Also, I use the software to build Excel models to predict my future tax liabilities. That way, I can tweak things throughout the year to arrive as close to break-even as possible. And since TaxCut feeds my models, I'm only a year behind any changes in tax code--and can make manual changes by reading the IRS website.

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bostonmike
December 9, 2008 6:01 PM
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If you do more returns, you're more likely to run into a bug in their software and call their tech support lines, which costs them money. A responsible company would welcome those calls and fix the bugs, but Intuit has another view.

Costco has been systematically deleting the negative reviews of TurboTax on their site about this, but they did add info about the fee into the product description.

Even worse, though, is that the TurboTax box says that the $9.95 price is subject to change, so they can jack it up even higher later.

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3 replies
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bmeighan
December 10, 2008 12:14 AM
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@bostonmike: In my 17 years with Intuit, I do not recall a single instance of where we increased the price of our desktop product or its services. Just as likely, we can reduce the price. In fact this year the vast majority of TurboTax customers will pay less this year than last.

Bob Meighan
VP, TurboTax

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bostonmike
December 10, 2008 12:45 AM
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@bmeighan: Don't put a warning like that on the box and then expect me to believe that you'll never take advantage of it. You're going to have a boatload of extremely angry customers this spring. The current furor is nothing compared to what it will be like in April.

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bmeighan
December 10, 2008 12:16 AM
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@bmeighan: In my earlier reply I meant to say \"I do not recall a single instance of where we increased the price of our desktop product or its services during the year.\"

Bob Meighan
VP, TurboTax

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HIV 2 Elway
December 9, 2008 6:01 PM
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Try H&R Bloch's software, its comparable on price and utility, plus our local company needs all the help it can get.

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2 replies
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m4ximusprim3
December 9, 2008 6:35 PM
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@HIV 2 Elway Resurrected: Or, if you're really down with supporting local business, just find a local tax preparer. Simple filings with just a 1040 are comparable to the price of turbotax.

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Applekid
December 9, 2008 7:01 PM
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@m4ximusprim3: Yeah, but then I'd have to tell the local tax preparer about my writeoffs for hookers and blow.

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Ixnayer
December 9, 2008 11:22 PM
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@Applekid: wait a minute, you can writeoff hookers and blow?

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johnnya2
December 11, 2008 8:40 PM
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@Ixnayer: Of course, these are legitimate business expenses. My boss wont reimburse them on my expense account, so I assume that it goes under unreimbursed employee expenses

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Mike8813
December 9, 2008 6:03 PM
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I was a Turbotax user for a number of years, until my first cross-country move. I've found Turbotax to be incapable of properly calculating my tax break by miles driven, whereas H&R's Taxcut program handled that aspect very well. There was a difference of ~$60 between the two. It paid for itself that year.


Just something to watch out for.

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3 replies
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brandymb
December 10, 2008 5:25 PM
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@Mike8813: I sit on a local waste water board ang get a small stipend for my service. Last year Turbotax wouldn't let me add the 1099 as income and kept trying to make me do a schedule C like I was running a business. wtf?

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bmeighan
December 10, 2008 12:18 AM
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@Mike8813: Mike... TurboTax absolutely does handle the deduction for mileage. I can only assume you may have missed the question. This is a very common tax deduction and if there really were any issue we would know about it immediately.

Bob Meighan
VP, TurboTax

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SJChip104
December 9, 2008 9:12 PM
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@Mike8813: H&R's Taxcut program handled that aspect very well.

I switched to TaxCut the year (2003?) TurboTax had some kind of copy protection that remained on your PC even after uninstalling. I've never found the need to go back.

For some reason, Intuit is hell bent on getting their foot in the door of your PC. I stopped using Quicken for the times when it would pop up trying to get me to open up an account with their bank or some other service. I PAID for the damn software, now let me alone!

PS: I used to prepare tax returns.

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donnie5
December 9, 2008 6:05 PM
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I for one see their pricing as good. But then again, I always efile and do not SHARE my copy with others.

Long live Turbo Tax! (imo, I just like it better)

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uglyjdkdjdodkdldkdl;d;'dd;dldldel;eie8e88
December 9, 2008 6:09 PM
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I used to use turbo tax. It just hit my ceiling for not using it anymore. There is a place on the web where you can do his for free.
Am I wrong?

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Rhayader
December 9, 2008 6:10 PM
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So they're getting what they deserve. Customer ratings don't lie.

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1 replies
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Nate425
December 9, 2008 6:21 PM
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@Rhayader:

Sure they do! When a group of people react off the cuff and are irrational, ratings lie. Seems like in this case, they are only seeing the rate hike and not doing the math and seeing that it's really still not that bad.

I don't use them though, so maybe I'm missing something.

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choinski
December 9, 2008 6:12 PM
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Governments love e-filing because its cheap and efficient, and should be free, except of course for the stupid corporates who lobby against it.


[www.npr.org]


I used to manage the TaxCut database. The stories I could tell....

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rpm773
December 9, 2008 6:14 PM
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When I finally paid upwards of $90 to file with Turbotax.com a few years ago, got less automation than I had received the previous year (in the form of automatically loading brokerage transactions), and learned that a local accountant charges $100 to do it for me, I said good-bye to Turbo Tax.

Pigs get fat, hogs get slaughtered.

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Mike8813
December 9, 2008 6:15 PM
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Also of note: Turbotax has (or had, not sure if it's still available) a free web-based option for those serving in the military, located deep in the bowels of Intuit's website.


I filed with Turbotax's normal online program the last year I was in the army.(2006) Even though I was checking all the boxes that said \"active military\", this free option was never presented to me while using their program. Kinda pissed me off, but to their credit they did end up issuing me a refund after I called and whined about it.

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sgtdawg
December 10, 2008 2:02 PM
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@Mike8813:
As of last year, Tax Cut is offered for free to Military. I know Turbo Tax was previously, but it changed in the last few years.


Whatever sevice is offered, they will be listed at Military OneSource.


I really do like the online version. I am able to access my previous years returns anywhere there is an internet connection.

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BlondeGrlz
December 10, 2008 4:52 AM
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@Mike8813: We've used TaxSlayer.com in the past, because they offer free federal e-filing for active duty military. They also do state e-filing but I think last time we had to pay a minimal fee. Looking at the website this year they might have made it free at the state level too.

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blackmage439
December 9, 2008 6:16 PM
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Can anyone tell me a good reason to actually BUY tax prep software anymore? The only reasons I can see are:

1. You want to utilize the \"deduction manager\", if applicable.

2. Your state doesn't offer free e-file.

3. You have some odd bank accounts or whatever that free state/federal/turbo-tax applications can't handle.

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3 replies
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oneandone
December 9, 2008 8:08 PM
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@blackmage439: You can only free file with the IRS if your income is less than $54,000 (or you meet some other criteria). Above that, wouldn't you have to buy the software if you wanted to e-file your fed return?

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ZukeZuke
December 9, 2008 7:28 PM
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@blackmage439:

4. Because it is fast and easy. Time is money.

5. It prints out clean file copies & also a convenient pdf file.

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RandomMutterings
December 9, 2008 6:23 PM
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@blackmage439:

The reason to buy TurboTax (for me, anyhow) is that it can automatically import all investment transactions from Fidelity.com and calculate all the ridiculous details required on Schedule D. That, alone, is worth the $90 or so it costs to avoid retyping and checking all those dates and values.

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battra92
December 9, 2008 6:16 PM
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I use Turbo Tax on the web version but honestly, it's getting just as expensive to go to H&R Block!

I have to go web based as I am not installing software and I am on Linux. (If I have to mess with WINE to do my taxes, forget it.)

This year I will probably switch to TaxAct.

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MsAnthropy
December 10, 2008 12:37 AM
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@battra92:

I used TaxAct last year, and will be using it again this year. No TurboTax, and definitely no H&R Block for me, thanks.

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lawnmowerdeth
December 9, 2008 6:22 PM
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Well, at least I can e-file now since I'll be paying for it in advance. I've used Turbotax the past few years but just print and mail the forms, since I refused to pay extra. (And I owed... So mailing it on April 15th was the best way!)

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UnicornMaster
December 9, 2008 6:22 PM
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So it's $60 plus another $20 or $30 for the State version? I think I paid $175 to my accountant last year and he saved me thousands of dollars. Why would anyone pay that much to do-it-yourself? That's kind of self-defeating.

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TheSpatulaOfLove
December 9, 2008 7:00 PM
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@DeanOfAllTrades:

Yeah, for awhile I thought tax software was a great deal, but as my finances became more complex, I found it had diminishing returns. I have a rockstar accountant now and for the money he charges to do my taxes, he always seems to save me tremendously more than if I did things myself. He also discounts his service to us, as we submit our first crack spreadsheet of deductions and expenses, and all our receipts are organized to coincide with the spreadsheet.

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JustThatGuy3
December 10, 2008 1:02 PM
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@TheSpatulaOfLove:


Before we got married, my wife sent her taxes to an accountant, and I used TaxCut. For the first year we filed jointly, we decided to try it, so we sent them to the accountant and I did them with TaxCut, as an experiment. Total difference in calculated liability: $6.

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Anonymous
December 9, 2008 6:27 PM
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I always go to a CPA. For $60 I have to sit and chat with her for an hour and I'm E-Filed. I don't know what could be easier than that.

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downwithmonstercable
December 10, 2008 12:51 AM
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@OwenIullus: $60? That's unbelievable. Do you just take the standard deduction? I'm going to start going to my parent's CPA, she charges about $150 and covers everything. We paid $125 at H&R block last year. I'd rather have a good CPA do it and pay the extra 25.

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KStrike155
December 9, 2008 6:35 PM
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You can use H&R Block's TaxCut Free File if your AGI is under $54k and you're under 50 years old.

I used that all 4 years while I was in school, and I'm just barely making it this year (I think) because I lost my job while I was in school from March to May or so.

Next year I won't be so lucky! Or... wait... I will be lucky because I will be making too much and have a job? I dunno...

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citking
December 9, 2008 6:36 PM
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Do your taxes for free.

The FreeFile link links to places that will allow you to file for free if you meet certain standards.

(As an aside, this provision was brought to you by Intuit and others, who cried \"unfair!\" when the federal government wanted to offer free e-filing to all taxpayers. They then proceeded to overcharge customers who thought they were filing for free. You can read the court case brought against them for this practice of deception.)

In the State of Wisconsin I can file my state taxes online for free by going to their website. Many other states have the same provision.

Since I became a homeowner I've had to abandon my free e-filing. I've decided instead to use TaxAct. They were my choice for free e-filing and now I just pay like $8 for doing my own taxes. Like Intuit and H&R block they'll try and fee you here and there for some things but they're not invasive and pretty easy to ignore.

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ToniRockyhorror
December 9, 2008 6:44 PM
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@citking: I've used TaxAct for the last two years, and plan on using them again this year. You can't beat $8 for filing everything and as long as you have your stuff organized in front of you, the whole process usually doesn't take more than an hour or so. I rarely get spam or useless emails from them.

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DeltaTee
December 9, 2008 9:26 PM
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@ToniRockyhorror: The only emails I get from TaxAct come in September advertising 50% off the next filing if you start your return then. I've been excessively happy with the online only version. Why would you pay year after year for something else?

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citking
December 9, 2008 6:47 PM
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@ToniRockyhorror: I agree. I've been nothing but happy with them.

On a lark I just logged in to check on it. I forgot my password, and even getting that reset was a breeze. Their UI is nice too.

Now if only I could get my W-2s early for once :)

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Saboth
December 9, 2008 6:38 PM
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I've used HR Block Taxcut in the past, but I was really planning on using TurboTax this year. Why? Because for over 1 month, HR Block took down their website (from Oct-Dec), and you weren't able to access your account. They said it was to upgrade for this year's taxes, BUT you have NO access to your information during this time. I vitally needed some tax information for student loans back in October, and they wouldn't lift a finger to help me. There was no online help at all (no way to contact ANYONE about the product), and if you called them, they merely said the website was down and will be back in Dec. Now, their website says your information is available to you for 3 years after using the product, not \"between these months\". So I consider it false advertising with extremely poor customer service to boot.

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Oranges w/ Cheese hates what Christmas has become
December 9, 2008 6:40 PM
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I've been using a free online service from one of them turbotax or HR Block for 3 years. Haven't paid a dime and its not got me in trouble with the IRS.

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TakingItSeriously is a Technopile
December 9, 2008 6:42 PM
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I go to an accountant. My taxes are somewhat complex, and I like the piece of mind that a competent CPA gives me.

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Illiterati
December 9, 2008 6:49 PM
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I just got a copy of TurboTax in the mail, unsolicited but probably because I've used it in the past. I'm self-employed, so the Home & Business version I need is $99.95 (plus another $10 to file w/the state). But the weird thing is that the mailing includes a coupon that gives me a $10 rebate if I don't use the disc they sent me and instead buy the exact same version in a B&M store. If I'm gonna spend $100, I might as well give it to a local accountant and save myself the time/grief.

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dohtem
December 9, 2008 6:55 PM
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And sadly I will still be purchasing it again this year. TurboTax gets me so much tax money back, it's worth it in the end. I have used it for the last 3 years with great success.

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parad0x360
December 9, 2008 7:12 PM
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@GuJiaXian: You know whats more satisfying? Doing, Filing and receiving your return in a week because you did it all over the internet.

That's satisfying.

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banmojo
December 9, 2008 7:29 PM
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Good Ship Intuit: Prepare yerselves, scallywags, for a boarding afit for a right buxom dame! Batten the hatches, prepare for BOARDING!!! HAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRGHGHGGHH blah.

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Starfury
December 9, 2008 7:34 PM
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I've been using TurboTax online the last few years and haven't had a problem with how the software works. I did have an issue with the pricing last year: the software was $10 cheaper in the store than online. I did manage to get them to give $5 back. Before I do my taxes with them again I'm going to do some price comparisons first.

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bohemian
December 9, 2008 7:36 PM
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Turbo Tax was already overpriced in my opinion. I will be doing my returns by hand this year on paper and mailing them in. After having Turbo Tax not catch that an insurance payment was actually taxed as income, the ensuing penalties, interest and tax attorney to get this fixed, if I have complicated taxes again I will pay him to do them. It would probably be cheaper.
I also dislike the weird rootkit type things they do that show up out of nowhere later on.

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vastrightwing
December 9, 2008 7:56 PM
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This is no different than what the phone companies are doing: charging what the market will pay for something that costs them almost zero when amortized across millions of people. There are online tax sites that allow you to file for FREE. I've used them in the past. In fact, you can use TurboTax free to verify your taxes. You can use TurboTax free as long as you fill out the Federal forms yourself and file them yourself. A small price to pay.

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SabreDC
December 9, 2008 8:11 PM
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If Mint.com offered tax prep (like TurboTax Online), that would be so sweet. All my investment accounts are already linked in there. My mortgage is on there. All my student loans are on there. They need to jump into that mix.

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tc4b
December 9, 2008 8:14 PM
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At least ONE of the financial institutions I do business with always offers me e-tax services for free, or for a small fee ($7 or so). Is this unusual? If I hd to pay $60 (or more), I'd hire an actual human.

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rockstarjoe
December 9, 2008 8:26 PM
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Last year State Farm Insurance offered a free deal for their customers, with the web based TurboTax. I hope they do it again this year!

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SabreDC
December 9, 2008 8:56 PM
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@rockstarjoe: I hate to be \"that guy\", but a few credit unions that I know offer the same deal. I think it is something like free federal file only, but you still have to pay for state or something like that.


If there are any Pennsylvania state employees on here, PSECU does it. Well, they've done it for 2006 and 2007. I assume they will do it again for 2008.

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ilves
December 9, 2008 8:37 PM
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Programs like turbo tax are nice when your returns aren't complicated, when you have complicated stuff stuff to file (like myself last year when i moved states halfway through the year and had no idea how to do that on turbotax) its much nicer to go to a person.

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SabreDC
December 9, 2008 8:58 PM
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@ilves: I've only ever used TurboTax online, rather than the full version. But on the online one, it's very simple if you move. When you enter your income, it just asks if you have any income from other states. And then it asks a few questions about your residency in the other states.


Again, I don't know if that's different than the full version though. I imagine that the full one is much, much more complex...

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LuzioFantazmic
December 9, 2008 8:42 PM
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That price is insane for tax prep software. My tax guy only charges $80 and I itemize.

TaxAct is the way to go if you do it yourself. It is only $15 for a federal return.

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Anonymous
December 9, 2008 8:43 PM
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Hi:

This is Paula from H&R Block. I've noticed that many of you have commented about trying TaxCut. I wanted to make sure that you had all the information that you need.

First, we did not raise prices on TaxCut software. We did not feel that raising prices in this economy was the right thing to do for consumers. Additionally, we have maintained the ability to file multiple personal federal returns. In fact, we have added 5 free e-files and do not charge any additional fees to print multiple returns. We don't think that consumers should have to decide between printing and e-filing their additional returns because of cost. (5 e-files is the IRS limit to prevent fraud)

TaxCut does import from TurboTax software, Quicken and Money to save time on preparing your federal return. TaxCut Premium includes a tax advice session with an H&R Block tax professional and every return that is e-filed receives our Worry-Free Audit Support at no additional charge (comparable to other's audit defense products for $34.95).

I'm happy to answer any other questions about TaxCut. You can also view a comparison chart at http://digits.hrblock.com/topicsofinterest/efile/truecost.php

Best regards
Paula from H&R Block

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BritBoy
December 9, 2008 8:58 PM
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If your tax situation is simple and easy (one income, no itemizing), then fill out the 1040 on paper and mail it in. Done. 1hr or so + a bit more for your state.

If your tax situation has even a slightest complexity, (itemizing, mortgage, interstate issues) then don't waste your time fighting with these bits of tax prep software. Just go to an accountant or tax preparer and for a reasonable fee they will quickly and effectively save you more money than their fee or than any simple form filling software ever could.

The actual real market for these bits of software is tiny. But it is fuelled by hype and FUD.

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j-o-h-n
December 9, 2008 9:01 PM
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We've used TaxAct for years and have always been happy.

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unobservant
December 9, 2008 9:20 PM
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\"If for ANY reason our customers aren't satisfied with having to pay the additional fee, we will refund the fee(s).\"


So I can buy it, file multiple returns, bitch about the fees, and get them refunded? SWEET.

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ELC
December 9, 2008 10:08 PM
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I got a brand new, free copy in the mail. :) And I've never used it. NO, it isn't a trial copy and there are no strings attached.

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cf27
December 9, 2008 10:18 PM
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Or buy it at costco for $49.99.

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UnicornMaster
December 9, 2008 10:29 PM
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All i have to say is someone in marketing or upper management is getting fired.

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Quake 'n' Shake
December 9, 2008 10:52 PM
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I definitely have to call \"Bullshit.\" I've used Turbo Tax for the last 7 years. Before getting married, I did my wife's taxes with the software too. I never e-filed because FUCK YOU Intuit! That \"e-file charge\" is my goddamn money! I'll just spend the price of 1st Class postage thank you very much. I can wait an extra couple of weeks for my return.

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shepd
December 9, 2008 11:56 PM
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This shouldn't have come as any surprise from a company that destroys the boot sector of your hard drive without permission just to run some DRM bullshit. This is the most invasive thing software can do, and isn't even a step down from viruses: It's exactly what viruses used to do 15 years ago.

[slashdot.org]

Seriously. What more needs to be said? Intuit is the worst corporation in the world, if you don't include Sony. If you think anyone else is worse, think for a moment: They only stole your money. They didn't walk up to your car, spray graffiti on it, and steal the engine which is the bar car analogy equivalent of trashing the boot sector.

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bmeighan
December 10, 2008 12:22 AM
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Over the past week, I've responded to a number of posts to help clarify TurboTax pricing. I wanted to provide you with an outside viewpoint as well.

Today CNET posted a very detailed and thorough review of TurboTax and TaxCut desktop and online pricing. The author writes:

\"But bargain shoppers should not leap to the conclusion that TaxCut is the less expensive option of the two. After scrutinizing the tax-prep prices, we've reached a more complicated verdict. TaxCut's sticker prices are cheaper all around. However, once you add fees for state returns, TurboTax online looks like the winner in terms of affordability, as it's slightly less expensive for the majority of users, who file only for themselves. TaxCut for the desktop, on the other hand, is cheaper than most editions of the desktop TurboTax.\"

The author notes that state filing requirements may provide more of an advantage to TurboTax desktop customers. Visit [news.cnet.com]

I hope this information helps.

Bob Meighan
VP, TurboTax

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nocturnal99
December 10, 2008 2:55 PM
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@bmeighan: Bob:

I hope this information helps.

Put yourself in the shoes of any person who's commented here or on Amazon and ask yourself seriously: how does that \"help\"?

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bohemian
December 10, 2008 2:44 AM
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@bmeighan: Coming in here repeatedly trying to blow smoke up people's skirts isn't winning you or your company any points. It is probably doing just the opposite.
The VP's at TurboTax seem to be so busy buying their own BS that they quit listening to the customers they expect to buy their product. It is over priced and has invasive DRM.

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SpenceMan01
December 10, 2008 4:03 AM
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@bohemian: He's done the same thing at every other site where his company's new fleecing scheme has been exposed. He hasn't convinced anyone anywhere else, either.

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parkavery
December 10, 2008 3:11 AM
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@bohemian: Yeah, I'm not buying it either. So $9.95 covers...

E-filing? Several people in this thread, myself included, already said we don't use that.

Technical support? How about actually charging for people who use tech support? Nobody in my family has ever used it.

Federal AND state returns? I can't think of a mainstream tax software programme that doesn't do both.

Archiving? I've already paid for my own hard drive, thank you. I don't need my personal data stored by a third party.

Services and infrastructure? Well...

Like everything else, this has nothing to do with additional users. If the MSRP of your software alone is not supporting the infrastructure of your company or not allowing you to turn a profit because of the cost of supporting the product (or whatever today's excuse is), that's not a consumer problem.

We are talking about software that performs a task. Simple. If optional add-on tasks like e-filing and online archives end up costing your company more money, you should charge the people using them, or just average out the cost and include it in the MSRP. It's not that hard.

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Rider
December 10, 2008 9:18 AM
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@undefined: @parkavery: If they charged for tech the support the ame people bitching now would be bitching about them charging for tech support.

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parkavery
December 10, 2008 12:47 PM
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@Rider: I guess my ultimate point was that essential services like tech support, if a company decides to offer it, need to be worked into the price appropriately. I don't like when the airlines charge for every little \"extra\" that isn't really an extra (booking fee? water?), and I don't like it here either.

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mariospants
December 10, 2008 2:48 PM
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Whatever happened to the good old \"send them all your documents and let the IRS sort it out for you\" routine? A friend of mine (here in Canada) has been doing that for the last few years and a couple of times they actually found and gave him write-offs that increased his return that he otherwise (and likely TurboTax) would not have suggested.

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Jevia
December 10, 2008 3:31 PM
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After years of doing taxes myself for my family, last year, when we bought a house, I bought Turbotax. I had a coupon from Costco, so it only ended up costing about $15 or $20. I didn't want to pay for the efiling (I don't understand why something like that would even be charged a fee, isn't it so much easier to file over the internet and have the information automatically go into the computer rather than mail it in and have someone imput the information into the computer), so I just printed it out and mailed it. Didn't use it for state taxes because in PA, you can just phone in your tax return for free (unless you are covered by one of the very few exceptions).


I did like using Turbo tax, it was nice to have it add everything up, calculate it all, etc., instead of doing it myself. I was looking forward to doing it again this year. Guess I'll wait to see if Costco has another coupon.

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esp13
December 10, 2008 4:34 PM
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The price hikes and pay-per return suck, but Turbo Tax is still a great product. I have used it for several years. but last year I found out I qualified for a free use and e-file of TurboTax thru the IRS website. Last years income limit was $54k. You'll be able to check if you qualify in Jan. Combine that with free CalFile and I didn't pay a cent. I say Intuit should drop the base price and keep the $10 charge only if you use the E-file. But still allow free printing regardless of number of returns prepared.

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Anonymous
December 11, 2008 1:24 AM
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Why pay at all? If your return is simple and you don't need state filing you can use TurboTax online FOR FREE! Just go to www.turbotax.com/free and select the free edition. Sure, they will beg and plead with you throughout the process to upgrade but be strong and you will make it through. p.s. No income limit!

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Anonymous
December 19, 2008 3:24 PM
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@QimatAntiope: Yes! I have been using Turbo Tax online for FREE for years now. Just go to irs.gov and you can get a complete list of free tax software options, including H&R Block. There are sometimes income limits, so if you make a ton, you probably won't qualify. But seriously, why does anyone pay for this ever???

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bmeighan
December 11, 2008 9:29 PM
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I want to thank you for your candid comments here about TurboTax. I realize that some of you are long-time customers and TurboTax fell short of your expectations. For all TurboTax customers, we regret we caused you such angst.

A number of factors, including your feedback, have prompted us to now enable TurboTax customers to prepare and print multiple returns at no additional cost. Plus, as we've previously communicated, free e-filing is included with every federal return. These changes will be reflected in a TurboTax One-click Update scheduled for release around December 20. As you may know, the IRS limits the number of e-filed returns to five.

We believe these changes make TurboTax the best value for consumers. Including free e-filing with every federal return means a savings of nearly $75 for some of our customers versus last year and a savings of up to $40 compared to our original pricing this year. I believe this now truly reflects our commitment to helping our customers keep more money in their pockets.

We have over 17 million loyal, passionate customers who genuinely care about what we do and who take the time to tell us. Our decision recognizes that your opinions really do count.

Let the tax season begin.

Bob Meighan
VP, TurboTax

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Anonymous
January 19, 2009 3:21 PM
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@bmeighan: OK, tell me how much I will have to pay to file my taxes this year using Turbo Tax?I file Federal & State by mail I DO NOT AND WILL NOT EFILE as long as I don't have to by law. I file a joint return; I file returns for my 3 children I file for my mother and I file for my mother-in-law. I also file amended returns up to 3 years later because of information that isn't available timely.

I have been using tax prep software since 1993 and TurboTax since 1997. I am currently evaluating different programs and TT is not looking so good.

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breny
December 18, 2008 1:15 AM
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Mmmmmm, apparently crow tastes pretty good as long as it's accompanied with a nice side of BS.

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