var json_comments = new Array("
\"user-pic\"
JustThatGuy3
November 3, 2008 7:02 PM
Moderate | Flag for review

You tried to go around eBay, in order to avoid paying eBay fees, and it bit you in the butt. Not much sympathy here. If you were really that concerned, you could have told him \"I'll see you tomorrow, and bring cash.\"

Reply
12 replies
\"user-pic\"
Trick
November 4, 2008 2:27 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

@JustThatGuy3:

If the guy was trying to go outside of the system, why did he take a PayPal payment? The OP sounds pretty clueless (eBay wise, he is new after all) so I doubt he even knows the fee's involved or how to get around them.

Sounds more like a eager-beaver wanting to make some money off his PS3 and forgot about the old saying...

CAVEAT VENDITOR

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Joeyjojo
November 3, 2008 11:05 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@JustThatGuy3:

You can get bit in the butt just as easily going THROUGH paypal.

Just assume every transaction on eBay is a scam and take that approach when buying and selling.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
xip
November 3, 2008 10:36 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@JustThatGuy3:
He went around Ebay, but so what? Paypal isn't an Ebay-only payment service. They claim to offer secure payments in general... not just for Ebay.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Illiterati
November 4, 2008 4:02 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@xip: But he DIDN'T go around eBay!!! Argh, people are not reading this, are they? The buyer used the Buy It Now feature, which is an option sellers can use on their auction listings. The buyer sent funds through PayPal, albeit with a fraudulent account. Local pickup is perfect kosher in eBay auctions, which is what the seller and buyer did here. Jesus, people, read the post!

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Lucky225
November 3, 2008 9:24 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@JustThatGuy3:
*sigh* another 'blame the consumerist'. It's not okay for the consumerist to try to cut corners by avoiding fees, but it's perfectly fine for merchants to charge fees or have a minimum purchase amount to get around their credit card processing fees even tho it's against the credit card company rules. I will never understand some of the people that comment here.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Roclawzi
November 4, 2008 2:22 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Lucky225: Actually Lucky, I'm fairly certain that minimum purchase amounts are illegal, but it's not exactly a fun time to argue the legality of the policy when you're trying to put a 2 dollar item on a Visa card.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
NikkiSweet
November 3, 2008 7:17 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@JustThatGuy3: The auction ended USING BUY IT NOW.

See... it's in the article.

There was no trying to get around eBay's rules/fees... he played by the rules, it's just that paypal/eBay don't play by their own rules.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
JustThatGuy3
November 3, 2008 11:06 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@NikkiSweet:
It said the buyer \"wants to buy my PS3 for the Buy it Now price\" and then he \"transfer[ed] the money.\" Also, he comes out and SAYS \"If your ad was on Ebay, make sure to do the whole transaction using the Ebay website, so that at least they have it on record.\"


If he had completed the transaction through eBay, it WOULD have been on the eBay website. The fact that he's saying it _wasn't_ on the site means to me that the deal wasn't completed through eBay.


Maybe I'm wrong, and maybe this is just really poorly phrased, but my read of this was:


1. OP put item for sale up on eBay.
2. Buyer contacted OP, said I'll buy it.
3. OP said OK, $ were transferred (but not really), but Buy It Now wasn't actually used.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
pjcard
November 4, 2008 2:07 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@JustThatGuy3:
Makes no difference whether he did it correctly through ebay on not, in either circumstance the real owner of the account would have got their money back and the seller would have been out of pocket.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
SudhiraAeolus
November 3, 2008 11:40 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@JustThatGuy3:

Again, the whole transaction/message were all done through Ebay. Only time I used email was when he wanted to double check the address and my availability.

Sorry, should've been more clear in the original post.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
JustThatGuy3
November 3, 2008 11:52 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@SudhiraAeolus:


Well, then, I'm sorry to hear you got scammed. If there was a \"retract comment\" button, I'd use it.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Raekwon
November 3, 2008 7:51 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@NikkiSweet: The auction was never completed which therefore voids any seller protection the seller would receive from Ebay and Paypal. Instead it seems like he was just sent cash fraudulently through Paypal which allows them to repeal it and take no responsibility. There is a reason why Ebay warns to never do auctions that are outside of the set auction system. I've been scammed from stolen accounts multiple times but since I used the Ebay/Paypal system I was able to recoup my losses through their protection system.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
SharanyaMed?n
November 3, 2008 7:44 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@NikkiSweet

No, the auction didn't end - it looks like the guy paid separately, outside of Ebay, for the Buy It Now price.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
SudhiraAeolus
November 3, 2008 8:31 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@SharanyaMed?n:

Yes, the auction did end. Buyer used Buy it Now button, paid through PayPal. Thought the tip was clear, but I guess it wasnt.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Diet-Orange-Soda
November 3, 2008 7:10 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@JustThatGuy3: Unless things changes, eBay lets you choose local pickup as a shipping option. This was a completely legitimate transaction (on the seller's part.)

Reply
\"user-pic\"
nataku8_e30
November 3, 2008 7:14 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Diet-Orange-Soda: Yeah, except it sounded like the auction never ended, so it was not in fact an eBay transaction. Still, I think paypal should be more secure. It's pretty obnoxious that they can essentially play god and transfer money in and out of your account (and any real accounts linked to your paypal account) however they like.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
sleze69
November 3, 2008 7:05 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

\"You said your website needs address verification before anyone can send out instant payments, correct? What is the point of the address verification if you don't check it BEFORE allowing him to send instant payments?\"


Is that false advertising? Or something like it?

Reply
2 replies
\"user-pic\"
Crabby Cakes
November 3, 2008 7:52 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@sleze69: That is exactly what I was thinking. How can they advertise this safer, more secure instant payment option, then tell the guy, 'oops, it's something we're working on, but you're still screwed.' My mind is boggled.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
RockStarr
November 3, 2008 7:07 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Shoud've done cash?

Reply
2 replies
\"user-pic\"
raptorrapture
November 3, 2008 7:54 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Meltdown: Yeah, I don't understand why if it was a local transaction, that he couldn't have just asked him to pay cash. Doesn't he already take a hit with the PayPal fee? Granted he said it was his first time using PayPal, but you should always do your research before using something and it sounds like he didn't. I know the Consumerist has a policy about \"don't blame the victim,\" but this guy was just being stupid, sorry.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Parting
November 4, 2008 3:26 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@raptorrapture: Not everyone read PayPal's horror stories, before dealing with them.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
SudhiraAeolus
November 3, 2008 8:28 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@raptorrapture:

As much as I like to argue with you, you're ultimately right. I should've just gone with cash and be done with it.

Like I said, I used PayPal because I wanted the transaction to be on record in Ebay if I ever needed funds reimbursed from a scam. Turns out that didnt help one bit.

And yea, hard to scam with cash, but in my area, a lot of people have been hit with fraudulent claims of sellers \"stealing\" money from buyers, even though the goods have been paid.

Looked out for my own ass and got bit anyway, but I would hardly call myself stupid.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Coles_Law
November 3, 2008 10:44 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@SudhiraAeolus: I'm sorry to hear about your loss. Ebay/Paypal like to bill themselves as secure. Unfortunately, scammers are out there and Paypal isn't going to take the hit. I had a friend lose about $20-sorry your lesson learned was more expensive. Not stupid, but expensive.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
squatchie44
November 3, 2008 7:08 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Actually, for those of us who can read it seems like he did the transaction on eBay given that eBay had the user's bidder ID.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
ajlei
November 3, 2008 7:09 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I will not use PayPal if I can at all help it. In turn, that means I rarely if ever use eBay. I still think it's worth my peace of mind.

Reply
2 replies
\"user-pic\"
RonDiaz
November 3, 2008 7:15 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@ajlei: Yea Paypal is bad news, I really try to avoid it. If I HAVE to use it, I add my credit card, make the transaction and immediately delete the credit card.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
sonneillon
November 3, 2008 7:25 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@RonDiaz: Using a credit card is good for a few reasons. The first is that you can back charge. The second is that credit cards usually have fraud insurance. Neither of these would have helped the OP but for buyers it's helpful.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
donjumpsuit
November 4, 2008 4:02 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@sonneillon: the take home message here is this. NEVER EVER NEVER EVER use paypal. This company is absolutely unaccountable for all of their buisness. The frequently freeze accounts for weird bank activity (like any use at all), and have NO customer service, even finding a phone number is a google trick.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
hills
November 3, 2008 7:11 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Bummer - when using Paypal always ship with delivery confirmation to prove delivery - without that any scumbag can pick up your item, then claim they didn't get it - even if you have them sign something at pickup, paypal will only accept delivery confirmation.

I've run into a lot of issues selling electronics on ebay - now I just stick to craigslist and cash for those items...

Reply
4 replies
\"user-pic\"
Outrun1986
November 3, 2008 8:01 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@hillsrovey: I have sold high value items on ebay you just have to protect yourself. Ship with signature confirmation, require immediate payment, insurance and make sure you only ship to the USA. The extra 2-3$ you spend for signature confirmation is well worth it for peace of mind and at least you aren't out your money if someone tries to scam you. Its amazing how many people will send out a 300$ item without delivery confirmation and insurance, no wonder there is so many problems. I consistently receive items that are sent without DC (that I buy on ebay) and you are supposed to slap DC on everything sent through paypal.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
deadspork
November 3, 2008 7:31 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@hillsrovey: Isn't it funny that something as low-tech as Craigslist kinda trumps all the long-standing contenders like Ebay and Paypal?

Reply
\"user-pic\"
sodomanaz
November 3, 2008 8:13 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@deadspork: What's even funnier is that ebay owns craigslist from what I remember.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Coles_Law
November 3, 2008 10:46 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@sodomanaz: Ebay owns Paypal. Craigslist is independent.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
FLEB
November 3, 2008 8:02 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@deadspork: It's not so much the tech, as the fact that there's no long-distance, mostly-anonymous transaction going on. It's within the \"I know where you live and can kick your ass\" radius, which can discourage scammers.

Reply
","","","
\"user-pic\"
Bladefist
November 3, 2008 7:16 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

hindsight is 20/20. I guess this has taught me, next time get a license plate #.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
Parting
November 4, 2008 3:25 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Bladefist: Good idea, never thought about it. I'll use it next time, when selling on craiglist.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
yorick328
November 3, 2008 7:19 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Should have transferred his Paypal payment to his checking account and waited the 3 days before handing over the item. Paypal is neither as seller or buyer friendly as it tries to make you believe. Lately Ebay has seen a larger number of scammers use its site. Always check the feedback!! If they seem like newbies, be careful.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Segador
November 3, 2008 7:21 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Yeah man, if he was local, I would've insisted on cash, but hindsight's 20/20...

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Git Em SteveDave loves this guy-->
November 3, 2008 7:22 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Well, first I'd report the PS3 as stolen, and call Sony and let them know the serial number and that it's stolen. If he goes in for a repair, you might be able to recover it, or get some info. Also, did he touch anything that could have a fingerprint on it? Have a description of the guy?

Reply
4 replies
\"user-pic\"
Reywood
November 4, 2008 1:55 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Git Em SteveDave loves this guy-->: I had a PS2 and a cordless drill stolen by some movers. Went to the police to report it, and was told that since I didn't actually see them stealing the stuff, they couldn't do anything. I got the distinct impression that they just didn't care. The items stolen weren't worth enough to raise their interest. I'm not sure at what dollar value theft becomes a crime worth pursuing.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
CarlR
November 3, 2008 7:31 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Git Em SteveDave loves this guy-->:

Regarding fingerprints / description : Somehow I don't think he's going to get much response from the \"non-violent crimes <$1000 division\" of his local police force.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
SudhiraAeolus
November 3, 2008 11:28 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@CarlR:

Being in Los Angeles, I doubt the good men and women in the force are hungry for a case like this. \"Stolen PS3?! Im on it!\" haha

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Git Em SteveDave loves this guy-->
November 3, 2008 9:24 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@CarlR: Cyber crime usually sexies up the charge. Stolen ID over state lines makes it a FBI matter, IIRC.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
Mr-Mr
November 3, 2008 7:26 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

PayPal will give you the shaft regardless of all the precautions in the world. I sold some clown a tutorial cd-rom for around $40. He paid me with PayPal, and I sent the item out and left him positive feedback(BIG MISTAKE). Ten days later PayPal reimburses him the money claiming that he said he hasn't received the item. I emailed the guy and he said that he did receive it and would be sending me a check instead. I talked to PayPal and they basically gave me the \"tough luck\" because I didn't use the confirmation service from the post office. I told them that where I lived, military base overseas, the post office didn't offer that service. They said \"oh well, you work it with the buyer.\" So, since then, no Ebay, and very rarely PayPal for me.

Reply
6 replies
\"user-pic\"
Parting
November 4, 2008 3:24 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Mr-Mr: Unrelated question : why did you have clown tutorial cd-rom at your house?

Reply
\"user-pic\"
kairi2
November 4, 2008 3:20 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Mr-Mr: This is why I don't use paypal anymore. They pulled that shit with me YEARS ago, when a shady buyer chose not to insure their item and told Paypal they didn't receive it. So Paypal went on the buyer's word and withdrew the money from my account. At least it was only a sweater.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
h3llc4t, breaker of office dress codes
November 4, 2008 1:42 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Mr-Mr: Yep, lost out on a $20 shirt because I received payment, the buyer left me feedback that he'd received the shirt, so I threw out my shipping confirmation slip. 2 weeks later, he appeals to eBay for never having received it. If I could find him I'd kick him in the balls, but airfare to France is expensive.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Parting
November 4, 2008 3:24 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@h3llc4t: I strarted filing all shipping confirmations, just to cover my ass. Your story confirms my paranoia ;)

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Parting
November 3, 2008 7:45 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Mr-Mr: You cannot leave negative feedback for buyers anyway... Not any more.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Mr-Mr
November 3, 2008 7:27 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Mr-Mr: So, the guy ended up with my item for free. I got screwed and Ebay can kiss my ass. I haven't used their service in almost 4 years since, and will never again.

Reply
","","","","
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
November 3, 2008 7:32 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Similar thing happened to me years ago. I put an ad in the paper for a PC that I upgraded to sell. Guy comes to my house with his girlfriend and gives me traveler's checks.Lesson learned: they are not the same as money.Long story short, I am out $500 and bank fees.Turned to my renter's insurance under a \"theft by deception\" clause and got it back.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
Parting
November 4, 2008 3:23 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@MedwinNugglet: I agree, in face-to-face, use cash only. Anything else should ring alarm bells.

At least you've got a happy ending.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
mike
November 3, 2008 7:38 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

When dealing locally, always deal in cash. No checks or money orders. I used to accept money orders when I sold stuff through Craigslist, but ever since the scammers started duplicating these, I went to all cash.


Buy one of those currancy markers from Staples and you'll be good to go.

Reply
4 replies
\"user-pic\"
catastrophegirl chooses not to fly
November 3, 2008 8:06 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@mike: @backbroken: re: the currency markers not working - they are designed to test the paper. however the US sells off some of the offcuts of currency paper to other countries for their own currency. a big counterfeiting scam used to be devalued venezuelan currency, which uses US mint paper, being bleached and reprinted.
this leaves orange and green threads, instead of red and blue.

a blacklight is effective - the \"US50 US50 US50\" strip embedded in larger bills [make sure the denomination of the strip matches the bill markings] is highly visible under a blacklight.

and learn to look for the super details - get a magnifying glass if you need to. and feel for the raised intaglio printing on the numbers in the corners.

paypal, cash, money orders... it can all be faked and scammers know more about it because the honest people are always playing catch up.

now off to post my old washer and dryer on craigslist for $25, must be picked up, cash only.... no large bills....

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Git Em SteveDave loves this guy-->
November 3, 2008 9:28 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@catastrophegirl: It works all the way down to the new 5's. Honestly, if you handle money in any good amount, you can usually pick up a counterfeit just by touch. When I worked in a food store money room, we had someone pass an obvious counterfeit bill, but one of the idiots behind the counter gave it an OK b/c it passed the stupid pen. It was a god awful forgery.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
backbroken
November 3, 2008 8:25 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@catastrophegirl: Paypal scams! Credit card fraud! Counterfeiting!!!


Hoard Hoard Hoard!!!!!!


LOL. Seriously, I'm almost afraid to sell anything now.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
backbroken
November 3, 2008 7:43 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@mike: FWIW, the currency markers don't work.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Coyote
November 3, 2008 7:39 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I would call the local police, what he did was steal $650 from you. Which in most states is a felony. I would then follow up and subpoena all documents and information from paypal and force them to deal with law enforcement since they don't seem to want to help you.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
juri squared
November 3, 2008 7:44 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Coyote: Yes, this. You had $650 stolen, so call the cops.

Plus, with a police report on your side, Paypal might pay more attention. At the very least, you may be able to recover some money via homeowners' insurance.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
wiggatron
November 3, 2008 7:41 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

As much as scammers suck, paypal sucks at least twice as hard. eBay has a monopoly going on with paypal, which of course means that they needn't worry about having decent customer service.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
Crazytree
November 3, 2008 7:42 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

did you pay fees to eBay?

Reply
","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
HungryTuna
November 3, 2008 7:46 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Anyone else remember this article from 2001: [www.wired.com]


eBay maintained that a very tiny portion of its auctions turn out to be scams.
\"It's less than 0.01 percent, and we've seen that rate coming down recently,\"


I wonder if we can put in a class action lawsuit against Ebay for lying about their statistics.
I believe the true Ebay fraud rate to be about 10-15%. It's gotten so bad that I'd rather purchase from a hole-in-the-wall website then use Ebay.

Reply
5 replies
\"user-pic\"
SigmundTheSeaMonster
November 4, 2008 12:56 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@HungryTuna: I've been with eBay since first inception. I can say that eBay is flawed. The feedback system had too many loopholes. eBay continually stands behind \"We are a venue\" and thus can not defend the seller or buyer. Once Whitman retired, didn't you notice the \"We wanna take on Amazon\" changes? Now, eBay caters to the buyer (no negative feedback allowed from seller, money held by Paypal, incentives for buyers...). Face it, they skim the monopoly borderline. I've only had one negative and one loss (I was buyer on the loss...and seller blamed UK postal system...I never got it insured so my eventual regret).
Lesson learned: pay the fees. Get insurance. Get confirmation. Only deal with countries you know the language in. Look for scammers (immediate contact to close the sale early-use paypal and local pickup). Beware of phishing (I still think more energy is wasted on cracking into eBay/paypal then we are aware of).
And like other suggested, notify Sony of your serial number. They have blocked users from using stolen machines (Kotaku had a story about it).

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Tubal
November 3, 2008 9:07 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@HungryTuna:

#1: That was 2001.

#2: I sell on ebay and only use paypal. Out of 1500 transactions (including about 8 PS3's) I've never been scammed. I've had a few people not pay after the auction ended, but no one sending me money from a stolen paypal account.

A tip, ALWAYS use delivery confirmation, and signature confirmation on high dollar items.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Joeyjojo
November 3, 2008 11:13 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Tubal:

Out of 4 ebay transactions, 2 were fraud (one a seller, one a buyer).

So, I'm batting 50%!

Alas, eBay's reaction to both of the fraudulent instances made it VERY clear that they really don't care. I, too, am now in the 'Craigslist + cash only' camp.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
The Cynical Librarian
November 3, 2008 8:35 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@HungryTuna:
I don't know if \"I believe the true Ebay fraud rate\" would stand up in a lawsuit. You'd probably have to have some numbers to go along with that belief.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Farquar
November 3, 2008 8:40 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Hungry Tuna:


You read consumerist, so your exposure to ebay deals is very limited to those that have gone wrong. Sure you know some work out, but you see the bad ones all the time.


Its like a neonatal nurse who is convinced that 90% of children are born premature (and a solid 10% have too many appendages). Of course the real percentages are less than 1/10th of that, but for neonatal nurses, that is all they see, so it skews their perception.


All that to say: Your estimated fraud rate is bupkis.


Oh, and don't work in a NICU if you want to have children without freaking out.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Parting
November 3, 2008 9:34 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Farquar: I dealt with professional scammers 3 times, out of 150 auctions. That's a solid 2%

Also, I've received numerous emails from ''newbie'' scammers.

In total, I've received offers from scammers on 10% of all auctions I've held.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Farquar
November 3, 2008 9:45 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Meltdown: Receiving offers from scammers is not the same as 10% of ebay transactions being fraudulent. 80% of the email I get is in some manner pushing a scam. I've never responded to any of it, so the fraud rate on transactions resulting from my email is still 0%.


You need a larger data set to have any sort of reliable figure.


I have done about 500 transactions through ebay on my two accounts. While I have had more than my share of transactions that pissed me off, nearly all of these are situations that are more accurately described as misunderstandings or novice ebayers with unreasonable expectations and the inability to package properly. I can only think of one transaction that I would say was legitimate fraud, and that dude was kicked off ebay within a week.


The issue of stupidity is of far greater risk to the bottom line of ebay than fraud. I don't buy much on ebay because sellers appear to have been trained by chimps when it comes to packing and shipping. Broken stuff is not better than no stuff at all.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
HungryTuna
November 3, 2008 11:05 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Farquar:
I hate to point this out but 1 out of 500 transactions is .05% and still stick to my belief that Ebay grossly underestimates fraud rates.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
HungryTuna
November 3, 2008 9:13 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Farquar:


What you guys are saying is very true.


However consider the math,


My Total Ebay transactions: 57
My Total Fraudulent transactions: 2


That would make my fraud rate 3.5% (350x greater than what I should have experienced). Consider the fact that I'm a weary consumer, purchase only from sellers with 95%+ positive feedback. I'm also not factoring the dozen or so solicitations to close out transactions outside of Ebay, hundreds of emails requesting that I verify my Ebay account, etc.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
November 3, 2008 7:46 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Ebay and PP are absolutely NO help if you get ripped off. Learned a 2K lesson the hard way. They opened and closed my case the 1st day. Didn't do any follow-up. nothing. PP's fine print says they do the investigation, and once the case is closed, NO reopening it, no matter what evidence you have. Ebay is full of liars, cheats, shill-bidders, etc. They and PP (same company) say they protect you, but they only protect the seller, as they are the ones that pay the fees. Sell that picture of a classic car as the car for 20k, and walk away with the money, according to my experience with PP. Caveat emptor!

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
samurailynn
November 3, 2008 7:48 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

So, if the guy is local, can't he file a police report? He saw the guy in person, so he even has a description of him, possibly even of the car he was driving.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
SudhiraAeolus
November 3, 2008 8:13 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@samurailynn:

Filed the report, called PayPal, they said, \"Now its up to the Police Department to find this guy.\"

There would be no way to find him, so no one (including myself) was optimistic about the turnout.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
November 3, 2008 7:50 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Ebay even warns buyers and sellers explicitly NOT to deal outside of Ebay's \"system\"...it sucks for you but you have nobody to blame but yourself.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
Parting
November 4, 2008 3:19 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@SiddhiIshbob: It's not like the system protects the seller... Or the buyer...

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
tundey
November 3, 2008 7:50 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Why not just require cash if the dude was picking up the items in person? In any case, the seller should file a police report.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
SudhiraAeolus
November 3, 2008 8:12 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@tundey:

I guess, since it was my first time using Ebay, and my paranoid nature, I thought that if he ever wanted to come back and say I stole his money, I would have record from PayPal that I didnt.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
November 3, 2008 7:50 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

First time ever posting here. Got scammed by a buyer and PayPal did nothing. Luckily I am only out about $20, but the whole thing left a terrible taste in my mouth and will now avoid ebay and paypal as much as possible, and I've been an ebay and paypal user for MANY years.

Reply
","","","
\"user-pic\"
Skankingmike
November 3, 2008 7:52 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

If you guys read, the guy sent him an EMail not a message through Ebay, Second he says the guy wants to pay for the Buy it Now price.


I'm an avid Ebayer I sell a ton of stuff on it and it works just fine, However I get people all the time that want to scam the seller. They send me Emails that state they want to just buy it from me without going through ebay. This is what happens when you try to not pay the final fee.


The guy transfered money into his paypal account without using ebay thus curcomventing the problem.


If you went through ebay this would be an ebay issue not paypal.


And yes call the police.


And never do local pickup for little items i don't care if they live next door to you. use tracking and if you ship to unverified addresses get a signature.


saved me many times.

Reply
3 replies
\"user-pic\"
Parting
November 3, 2008 9:29 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Skankingmike: Ebay and PayPal are the same company. Like lipstick on a pig.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
SudhiraAeolus
November 3, 2008 8:07 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Skankingmike:

Nope, send the message to me through Ebay, paid through Ebay/PayPal.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
noscamsplease
November 3, 2008 7:52 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

paypal is the worst. i ordered vouchers through ebay (entire transaction done there) and paid with paypal. seller sent me worthless photocopies. complained through paypal dispute resolution and six months later, nothing. said there was nothing they could do. i was out $127. said they \"investigated\" and seller sent me \"something that I signed for.\" YES, worthless photocopies, which is impossible for me to know BEFORE I SIGN for the envelope. paypal had some sort of appeals system which I followed, only later to find the email containing all the information of the case was DELETED WITHOUT BEING READ. THANK GOD FOR Outlook Read Receipt. Ebay ended up refunding a little more than half the cost after I provided them with the proof that the appeal information was never even looked at by Paypal.

Reply
2 replies
\"user-pic\"
kayfox
November 4, 2008 5:57 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@noscamsplease:

Outlook read receipts only work when the person your sending the email to is using Outlook and their mail settings and/or security policies allow them.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
SudhiraAeolus
November 3, 2008 8:11 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@noscamsplease:

No matter how many times I called PayPal or Ebay, they would not do anything for me. Good job at getting them to reimburse.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
SudhiraAeolus
November 3, 2008 7:53 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Hey everyone, this is Herman: I didn't add this to the tip, but should've:

Called the local law enforcement, and they sent out a \"civil claims\" officer. Basically, he said that since all the information I have of the guy is false (the address he used for Paypal lead to a Mcdonalds), I really couldn't do anything. He'd start a report, but that was about it.

Yes, I had to pay the fees to Ebay. First, he asked me to close the auction and sell it to him, and, paranoid as I was, I asked him to first use Ebay to Buy it Now, then send me the funds through the (supposedly secure) PayPal Instant Payment option. What irks me is that, going in, I was afraid of being scammed, so I looked up all known scams and how to avoid them. Looking back, I made 2 mistakes: Not double checking the address (though, like I said, I trusted PayPal to do that), and not asking for straight up cash.

But yea, suffice to say, now I exclusively use Ebay to buy, and craigslist to sell. Thanks for the comments, guys!

Reply
2 replies
\"user-pic\"
rdm
November 3, 2008 9:04 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@SudhiraAeolus: Yes, I will pretty much not sell anything on ebay anymore. But I'll buy on it all day long :)

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Parting
November 3, 2008 9:28 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@rdm: I got scammed for 40$, while buying... Once again, PayPal offers zero protection.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Corporate_guy
November 3, 2008 10:08 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Meltdown: But your credit card will always refund your money. Just be sure to never ever use debit or checking.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
BeeBoo
November 3, 2008 7:54 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

The real scammer is eBay/PayPal, not the person who took the merchandise. eBay is the world's largest fence, all kinds of stolen and fraudulent goods go through there and they don't care. PayPal is owned by eBay, functions like a bank but is not regulated as one, and it rips as many people off as the scammers do. eBay/PayPal never takes responsibility for anything, they always get their fee and the consumer always gets screwed. If someone is buying something from you in person insist on cash and check for counterfeit bills. The only other option is to go to their bank with them and have them transfer the money to your account with you present. Cashiers checks and money orders can be faked and you don't find out until weeks after you deposit them.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
JustThatGuy3
November 4, 2008 12:46 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@BeeBoo:


\"The real scammer is eBay/PayPal, not the person who took the merchandise.\"


That's just silly. That's kind of like saying that you weren't responsible for that reckless driving charge, it was Ford's fault for making a car that could do 80mph in a school zone.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
spoco
November 3, 2008 7:56 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Paypal sucks. I try to avoid it if at all possible. Its okay to buy things on, but if you try to sell its a hassle. Barely use it but used it to sell a high priced item recently and they held $2500 for nearly a month while they verified. Finally took an e-mail to an executive (found on Consumerist, of course) to release my funds.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
quagmire0
November 3, 2008 8:02 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Another safeguard - insist on taking a mugshot with your cell phone camera.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
quagmire0
November 3, 2008 8:04 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@quagmire0: Or even better, stage a camera with a timer or a video camera aimed at the door when you make the transaction.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
JoshReflek
November 3, 2008 8:03 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Wait, the scammer 'paid' online, but you didnt take your money before handing the item over?

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
jdmba
November 3, 2008 8:06 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

My heart goes out to the O.P. I stopped selling on eBay a long time ago, but locked in that decision when they decided sellers could not leave negative feedback. My only negative feedback for many many hundreds of sales was one guy who never paid. He decided to leave a negative (since I reported him to eBay to get my fees back) saying that I never shipped. Very true statement. eBay would hear none of removing it.

I realize that eBay is the biggest game in town, and that status makes it the most likely place to get top dollar for your stuff, but there has to come a point where the cost of doing business over ebay outweighs that.

I hope that day comes soon.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
BeeBoo
November 3, 2008 8:13 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@jdmba: Now sellers can't leave feedback on buyers at all.

Reply
","","","
\"user-pic\"
yzerman
November 3, 2008 8:09 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Trust me I don't blame you one bit. I hate email scammers.


In the future I have one suggestion.


Next time if your meeting face to face and they aren't paying in cash.. do the deal and then write down their plate number on their car. A call to the local police station with the number and you have a good chance to catching that theif.


I guess its easier to say it now after the fact.

Reply
","","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
billbobbins
November 3, 2008 8:18 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I sell on Dallas Craigslist and only deal locally. Cash money when you get your item. I do not have a Paypal account. After reading and seeing the horror stories, whey would a seller accept a system that is set up to protect the buyer...even scamming buyers??

Every time I try to sell an item on Craigslist I get at least one scammer who wants to pay by check and then immediately send a \"moving company\" to pick up the item. The guy got scammed and Paypal even helped the scammer! So I deal in cash. And the buyer sees, holds, and tests the item he is getting. Yes I am limited locally, but I never have trouble finding a buyer.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
Parting
November 3, 2008 9:38 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@billbobbins: We don't all live in metropolitan areas. When you have to drive for half an hour to meet the seller... EBay comes out as a necessary evil.
I cannot wait for some viable competition to appear.

Reply
","","","","
\"user-pic\"
Real Cheese Flavor
November 3, 2008 8:32 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Paypal is horrible. I still have an account with them because there's occasionally an online merchant that'll uses it.

However, I only have a credit card that has a $300 limit registered with them and there's no way in hell that I'd ever give them unfettered access to my checking account, no matter how many times they nag me about it.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Erwos
November 3, 2008 8:33 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I will admit that I've looked for local eBay sellers and asked them if they'd sell outside of eBay for cash and a slight discount. I know, that's against the TOS, but I usually phrase it in a very polite way.

But I _always_ bring cash, and I would expect any half-sane seller would demand it.

That said, the poster does bring up a valid point, in that there is a weakness in eBay's system.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Real Cheese Flavor
November 3, 2008 8:33 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

\"that'll uses it?\" Guh, I'd kill for an edit button.

Reply
","","","
\"user-pic\"
HeyApples
November 3, 2008 8:43 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

As a former employee of PayPal, I have seen this same story perpetrated countless times.


Their protections departments are built to prevent the company from getting sued and not to protect their customers.


They also intentionally isolate their phone reps so they don't have the knowledge or ability to make corrections on the customer's behalf.


I might suggest filing a grievance with the BBB or Attorney General.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Canoehead
November 3, 2008 8:43 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Craigslist is cool if you live in a big urban area - but if you live in the sticks, then Ebay provides access to the whole world. Too bad it is a world fll of scammers.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
vastrightwing
November 3, 2008 8:54 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Variation: thief attempts to sell you nothing, which you pay using PayPal. After you complain about not getting your item, the thief pays you (this is important) some amount other than the actual sale amount. He does this to avoid any automatic match of the transactions. The thief then complains that he purchased an item from you. PayPal then tells you to send the thief a tracking number. You then have to prove that you were scammed and never sold anything. It's a mess. This happened to me. In the end, I was able to convince PayPal that I was scammed and the thief didn't get my money, but it was nerve racking!

Lesson: don't accept a payment for a non shipped item. Demand a refund. If you have to, refuse the payment.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
athmsVT
November 3, 2008 8:55 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I feel PayPal should be liable for the lost funds, for many reasons. I would argue they legitimately stole the funds from your account that were rightly yours, and they took it out after they had made the \"implication\" that you had fully and rightly received payment. Implication is being nice to PayPal, I would say deceitfully. The service you paid PayPal for was to ensure the transfer of money. Once they gave it to you, they should have been out of the picture. They are solely responsible for the method of scamming. It is a loophole they were aware about for a long time, and they failed to close it nor did they sufficiently alert the end user of the problem. I would argue gross negligence. In addition, what are you really paying PayPal for if they do not validate transactions? Also, how long do I as a user have to wait until I can be assured the money they transfer to my account is mine? With the current case, this means cashing someones check would be a more viable solution and safer assuming I wait for it to clear (Waiting for it to clear is analogous to waiting for funds to be posted to your PayPal account). I would only be out the bounced check fee. I guess the argument could be made by questioning what happens when you buy stolen goods assuming you purchased without knowledge of them being stolen. Do you become liable for those items if you ever should become aware of that fact?

There are two very simple solutions that PayPal/Ebay should implement, both of which should have been implemented before. First if they are going to let a purchaser demand their funds back, they should hold the money in an escrow account until the shipper provides them with valid tracking number that matches the requested shipping information and standards (such delivery confirmation). There after the purchaser should have no recourse to get their funds back. If Ebay were to provide buyer protection against false claims, they should stipulate that fact and PayPal should have no recourse to access your money. The collection should fall on Ebay. The other solution is to only post funds that are guaranteed, after they release the funds I should not have to worry them revoking them.

I had a friend who knew about being scammed by foreign purchasers who would claim the package never arrived, and PayPal would withdraw the funds from his account. The trick he used was to have withdrawn the money as soon as it was paid, so his account would go negative. I thought at best unethical, but potentially susceptible to legal action if PayPal ever tried to collect. They never did though, and that was 3+ years ago.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
mariospants
November 3, 2008 9:02 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I can't believe what you put up with there, Herman. I would have freaked the fuck out (of course, I'd never actually part with my beloved PS3 in the first place...).


What doesn't makes sense is where is this money coming from? Did the guy pay PayPal some money that he quickly removed when he got the PS3 or did he use someone else's account for the transaction (which later got nulled due to the address issue). At what point does PayPal accept any responsibility for the massive amount of fuckups they seem to be responsible for?


I've never used PP and I never will. This is verification why.

Reply
","","","
\"user-pic\"
shepd
November 3, 2008 9:11 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

The secret with paypal is to ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS take out the money the moment you get it in the account. Keep that account at ZERO! That way, they will need to get your bank to give them the money, and that requires a hell of a lot more work. Enough they will probably just close your accounts and write you off, which works for me...

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
Mikestan
November 3, 2008 9:13 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I sell a decent amount of stuff on ebay. Whenever I receive money from someone I immediately transfer it into my bank account. I then wait for the funds to be available in my bank account before I send anything out. Has not failed me yet.

Reply
2 replies
\"user-pic\"
InThrees
November 4, 2008 7:57 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Mikestan: My business partner just sold a refurbished Alienware laptop for $1500 on ebay, was paid via PayPal, and transferred the money to his bank account. He shipped the item after the funds were available in his bank account.

He then received an email from PayPal claiming there was some sort of error or issue with the payment method, and they debited his account the $1500, which resulted in an overdraft fee and lots of headache.

Bottom line, not even that is safe. They'll just hit your account for the money.

Reply
\"user-pic\"
Parting
November 3, 2008 9:42 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

@Mikestan: In this case, what are your shipping delays? As far as I know, it takes a week to clear any funds...

Reply
","","","
\"user-pic\"
Parting
November 3, 2008 9:27 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

If someone wants to pay you using PayPal, just ''don't do it!\".

As a seller, you have zero protection, while using PayPal. You rely on buyers' honesty. That's it.

Reply
","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
diesel54
November 3, 2008 9:34 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Sorry about what happened. Based on your responses to posts you did just about everything possible to avoid being scammed. They've always got some new trick.

Reply
","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
LJKelley
November 3, 2008 9:45 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

There are plenty of stories on the net about the horrors of eBay/PayPal.


But picking up locally and paying thru PayPal just reaks of a scam. I have sold a few things on Craiglist and explicity say that I only accept Cash. They have gone well.


I don't wanto blame the op, but did you ever think why someone would wanto pickup in person but pay thru a payment system that is known to have issues in regards to scams? Next time use Craigslist and except only cash. Also, since it was a LOCAL crime, I would submit whatever details including how the person looked like to the local police.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Corporate_guy
November 3, 2008 10:06 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

If their address verification failed, take them to small claims court for your money.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
xip
November 3, 2008 10:28 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

I still blame Paypal here. It seems that the guy was trying to get around Ebay's fees. (And who can blame him?) However, Paypal isn't marketed as being ONLY an Ebay payment service. Paypal is used by many websites, and it's marketed as being a generally multi-purpose secure online payment service. Here is some text from Paypal's website:

Pay anyone with an email address or phone number - instantly.
* Send money to family and friends.
* Pay for goods and services.
* PayPal is the secure, free, easy way to pay - and privacy is built in.

Just look at this situation as a non-Ebay transaction. Paypal says it's a secure way to pay for goods and services. Obviously it's not.

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
InThrees
November 4, 2008 8:00 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

@xip: No, look at that again. PayPal is a secure, free, easy way to PAY.

What it doesn't say is that if you're receiving money, you really have no protections whatsoever. They will always find some loophole in their terms and conditions to exclude your transaction, or they'll just plain stop responding.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Zach, your favorite liberal seventeen year-old Texan politics-and-news junkie/Doctor Who super-fan
November 3, 2008 10:35 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Paypal might have said that it was an issue that they were \"working on\", but are they \"taking it seriously\"?

Reply
","","","","","","","","","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
xthexlanternx
November 3, 2008 11:59 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Ebay and Paypal are the most scammer friendly places on the Internet. I would never EVER EVER sell anything worth more than 25$ on Ebay. The place is just full of scammers and Paypal always sides with the buyer. Any seller that gets scammed is SOL.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
cashmerewhore
November 4, 2008 1:12 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

I have the buyer sign a document stating he did receive the item, it was in the condition as described, best I could demonstrate. Two copies signed, one for him, one for me, signed by a witness. No paypal on local pickups because of this loophole.


Granted, I'm still leary on doing these transactions and I have over 3600 feedback.

Reply
","","","
\"user-pic\"
WEGGLES90
November 4, 2008 2:13 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

I hate passing the blame, but why use paypal when dealing in person. I guess hindsight is 20/20. :\\

If you know the serial number you could ask sony to track it as stolen if it appears online... maybe? (can they do that?)

Reply
","","","
\"user-pic\"
snowlock
November 4, 2008 2:40 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

albeit on a much smaller scale, i believe i was tried for a similar scam.

i was selling a rare-ish, out-of-print game on ebay.
it marks the first time i've ever used ebay to actually sell anything.
it sat for a few days without an opening bid, then a few came in.
the top bidder sent me a message about being a local buyer,
and said he wanted to send payment via paypal and pick up the item.
this person actually wanted to go outside of ebay, actually, so it's a bit different.

i didn't do it and that bidder didn't win the auction.
if the claim he made about his bid was true,
then it ended up selling for about 130% of the price he was offering.
well worth the ebay fees, in my case.

op should take the scammer to judge judy;
i saw her charge the maximum jurisdictional limit to an ebay scammer!

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
UniComp
November 4, 2008 3:16 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

Playstationurgular strikes again...

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
larryb711
November 4, 2008 3:38 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

I bought a magazine subscription and paid with money I had in my paypal account. The magazine never came, and was told by paypal that I had only 30 days to request a charge back or credit. I stated that the subscription seller stated that subscriptions would start in 30-120 days depending on the frequency of the magazine. I complained how can they only guarantee a credit within 30 days when they allow sellers to state that it could take up to 120 days to receive something. And, since ebay owns paypal, then they are basically stating that they will not honor something their own company promotes. After several emails, and about 4 hours with ebay and paypal customer service,and a threat to file a complaint with the Georgia Department of Consumer Affairs I was able to get my money back. Granted it was only $11.00, but it was the principle. Now, I will never keep money in a paypal account. This way, I can always dispute it with my credit card company when I use the credit card to pay a paypal fee.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Petra
November 4, 2008 4:32 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

This is why I always put in my listings that for safety reasons, I don't allow local pickup (although this is mostly because I am a girl and I don't feel comfortable transferring an item in person by myself, or having a stranger come to my home). Also, never, NEVER offer to do business outside of eBay for the sake of saving a few bucks... without a play-by-play record of everything that happened in the course of the transaction proving it was valid, not much can be done if something goes wrong :( Not that following all of the rules will guarantee that Paypal will refund you the money...

Just a thought, you have the guy's name, right? If he's local, contact your local police department. Chances are, if he scammed you, he's got a criminal record, even if it's just parking offenses.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
redkamel
November 4, 2008 4:58 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

that sucks man. Those damn do nothing cops. Of course, they would care if you had 40 dollars worth of pot. But not if a $650 playstation was stolen.

Is their a unique serial ID sony has? if he signs online, even with a different ID, Sony can tag the serial, and get the IP. Assuming a) you had an online account and b) it contains the PS3s ID number in your user info somewhere.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
madog
November 4, 2008 6:22 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

Pretty ignorant that some of you claim, \"You went around eBay, so it's your fault.\" Regardless, the fact of the matter is that PayPal fucked him over. In this article he didn't say that he went to eBay when trouble arose, he went to PayPal: wondering why a \"safe and secure\" transaction was found to be fraudulent through their service. I couldn't imagine what eBay could have done in this situation as it seems all too common (for both companies), and quite frankly, I don't think either of them give a shit either way. \"Well if it was completely done through eBay we could have told you it was a scammer and done nothing to help you because we're stupid jackasses.\"

They obviously haven't fixed their constant problems and probably never will until they both die.

The only complaint I have with this, would be that if I met anyone in person for any sale via strange online service, it would be at a public place and be cash only. If they guy has the money on an online service, then he can can get cash from a bank.

The lesson I have learned from all the stories on consumerist, my brother, and my friends is to NEVER EVER use PayPal or eBay for any reason whatsoever, and only deal with cash from local, public meetings through an ad service, classifieds, or craigslist.

Reply
","","","
\"user-pic\"
jook
November 4, 2008 8:27 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

I've done vaguely similar deals before. I make sure the money clears paypal and gets into my bank account before letting anything else proceed. So far, so good.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
sam-i-am
November 4, 2008 10:45 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

Sorry to hear it man, that is truly crappy. I would report paypal to the BBB and to your state's attorney general as well.

The lesson learned is to always avoid paypal when possible (for example, this time cash would have been very easy), and work with credit cards (buyers, not sellers). Paypal is dirty dirty dirty.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Mozoltov, motherfucker
November 4, 2008 11:05 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

Wow. All the guy had to do is wait for the transaction to clear. I have used Paypal and Ebay for years, never have been scammed once. You WAIT till the money is in your hands before you ship or give anyone anything. If I sell someone something on Ebay, and they paypal me the money, I immediately transfer the money over to my account, then withdraw it. Cash in hand. I put this specifically on my auction page, if you pay any other way except cash you have to wait a week or so for themoney to clear. It should be common sense to wait for electronic transactions to clear.

Who Paypals money and then picks it up? Doesn't that set off a whole set of red flags? Isn't it easier to meet in person with cash?

Reply
1 replies
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
November 6, 2008 3:02 AM
Moderate |Flag for review

@DJ Barrak:

\"Who Paypals money and then picks it up? Doesn't that set off a whole set of red flags? Isn't it easier to meet in person with cash?\"

Not necessarily. Prevents waiting for a buyer who may never show up, and handling cash which can be problematic from a security standpoint.

Reply
","","","
\"user-pic\"
pjcard
November 4, 2008 2:03 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

You can't trust paypal, a similar thing happened to me. Someone stole an account, changed the address and used it to buy an item. Paypal took well over two months to decide that they wanted the money back and acutally got debt collectors onto me because I didn't just happen to have the hundereds of pounds lying around in my paypal account. At the time this happened they purposley made no checks on buyers whatsoever, not even basic things like \"does this card match the address\" or \"whats t ccv number\". Their customer support associates were rude and unhelpful, constantly insisting that it was all my fault. Scum.

Reply
","","","","","","","","","","
\"user-pic\"
MisterE
November 4, 2008 4:02 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Ebay and PayPal are not designed to protect you. They're whole purpose is to generate profit, even if it means screwing you. How come nobody else can see this?

Reply
","","","
\"user-pic\"
econobiker
November 4, 2008 4:06 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Have sold motorcycles and items via ebay and craigslist. If meeting in person I always meet in public- preferring supermarket parking lots with video cameras- Kroger, Walmart, etc. Cash is king here for the small odd type goods...


As for motorcycles, I meet in larger supermarket parking lots in order to demonstrate the cycle (which may not have current tag or insurance). I will not let the buyer test ride unless he gives me the entire amount upfront and then I will refund him if he doesn't like the bike after a test ride (and doesn't crash it). Then we do the deal inside near the in-store bank if they have one. I have also met buyers at motorcycle dealerships midway between our two areas so we do the cash transfers inside the dealership.


If buying a cycle I prefer to bring a deposit only first and then pick up later- if possible at a neutral place. This is a safety issue as some sellers tend to be from iffy areas (both urban and rural) and I do not have a concealed handgun permit. Last purchase I did the deposit/purchase bill of sale inside a McDonalds and the final payment at a Kinkos/Fedexoffice (also well known for video cameras).

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
MrEvil
November 4, 2008 4:36 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Too bad eBay doesn't have cash on pickup as an option for payment. Still though, if the person is meeting you at your home or place of business I'd suggest asking for a valid drivers licence. If they show up and say \"I forgot\" don't give it to them. Worst thing that'll happen is they'll get Paypal to retract the money and you'll still have your merchandise.

Reply
","
\"user-pic\"
Chon
November 4, 2008 4:59 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

If Herman has a PSN account tied to his PS3 that has auto-sign in. hell even if it had the password saved onto the PS3, he could have that PS3 found.

He needs to call Sony and the local authorities. they MIGHT help him out. but he needs to do so ASAP. they could trace the PS3 and find the jerk.

Reply
","","
\"user-pic\"
Anonymous
November 4, 2008 10:01 PM
Moderate |Flag for review

Sony has already had some successes with locating stolen PS3s and returning them to their correct owners when the thieves connect the machine to the internet.

If you have a police report to use as supporting documentation, they might be able to help out.

Reply
","");