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Triborough
October 31, 2008 9:22 PM
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Do you know the kinds of things that can fall into an industrial sausage press? Not excluding rodent hairs and bug excrement.

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3 replies
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closed_account
October 31, 2008 11:03 PM
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@Triborough: Here is the list of what the FDA says it legal [vm.cfsan.fda.gov] I couldn't find any products that allowed whole animals :)

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Gokuhouse
October 31, 2008 9:28 PM
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I'm glad he isn't looking for money like many sadly would do. He should at the very least get answers to his questions.

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4 replies
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LoringLemming
November 1, 2008 2:49 AM
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@Gokuhouse: @Gokuhouse: He is an IBM executive. The $2.00 pack of hot dog buns is probably the least of his concerns. I'd rather the money be spent on better QA too.

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mythago
November 1, 2008 7:12 PM
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@LoringLemming: What incentive do they have to spend money on anything other than press releases saying they are taking this \"very seriously\"? The IBM executive may not want any money, but the AG's office and the health inspectors should be slapping this company with fines until its ears bleed.

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kenblakely
November 1, 2008 12:45 AM
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@Gokuhouse: Whay are you glad he's not looking for money? The bottom line is the >only< thing that a corporate entity listens to. If a mistake is made and it doesn't cost anyone anything, well, ho-hum, everybody back to work. But if a mistake is made that costs some money, it gets noticed and processes change (sometimes).

Punitive damages have a place

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KMan13 still wants a Pontiac G8
January 8, 2009 7:19 AM
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@kenblakely:
I have a feeling BJ's may have cost them a lot of money, what with pulling product and such.
But still not that much, in the grand scheme of things, maybe a few thousand.

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idip
October 31, 2008 9:28 PM
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Interesting how Arnold Bread said not to contact BJ's....

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tande04
October 31, 2008 10:10 PM
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@idip: Not really.


You don't need to be suspicious about why they told him that because you know and they know its exactly what happened when he did contact BJ's...

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idip
November 1, 2008 6:33 AM
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@tande04: Yes, but instead of them voluntarily pulling the product they make it look like they were going to cover it up.

That would lose my business forever vs. if they pulled the affected product and said the rest was fine.

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bobpence
October 31, 2008 9:38 PM
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Weight would be wrong before the product is shipped out. They weigh it before shipping it out, right? Right?

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3 replies
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stre
November 3, 2008 6:43 PM
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@bobpence: they probably weight by the case or even by the pallet. in that case, you're not going to find it.

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Spaceman Bill Leah is a motherfucking dinosaur
October 31, 2008 10:10 PM
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@bobpence: Mice don't really weigh all that much so I am not sure that would catch the problem.

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RedwoodFlyer
October 31, 2008 11:17 PM
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@Spaceman Bill Leah is a motherfucking dinosaur:

Saw something on TV about Lego's...and they can catch an extra minifig head...which weighs a hell of a lot less than a mouse!

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jamar0303
November 1, 2008 3:29 PM
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@RedwoodFlyer: But would the hotdog bun factory pay the extra money to have that kind of precision? It's not everyday that mice get baked into hotdog buns.

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laserjobs
October 31, 2008 9:47 PM
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Now they put the mouse in the bun, not just the hotdog.

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RodAox
October 31, 2008 9:49 PM
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I don't think he needed to buy the hot dogs, those buns came prepackaged with meat already.

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FortyMegaFonzies
October 31, 2008 10:10 PM
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Before all this complaining, did anyone even think to check if mouse was listed on the ingredients label? Much ado about nothing, me thinks.

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Starfury
October 31, 2008 10:11 PM
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Guess the factory wasn't as squeaky clean as it could be.

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KStrike155
October 31, 2008 10:13 PM
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I almost just threw up.

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Git Em SteveDave loves this guy-->
October 31, 2008 10:15 PM
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How did it get in there? Easy. By the looks of it, it crawled onto the line after the bread was proofed, but before it got baked. The line through the mouse looks like it's from when it's cut after it bakes. As for how it got into the bag like that, most bread companies use an automated system, and don't have people shoving bread into the bags one at a time.Also, while it's true if you see one mouse in the house, finding one mouse in a package doesn't mean the other hundred million had them.

I can kind of see why Arnold bread would want to keep this on the down low. Look what a little e-coli or Sam&Ella scare can do a company. But good to the consumer for calling the company first, and letting them know. Also good for turning down the money.

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downwithmonstercable
October 31, 2008 10:18 PM
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That...is...absoutely disgusting. But good for him for not automatically suing and just wanting answers instead.

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TMurphy
November 1, 2008 12:52 AM
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@downwithmonstercable:
I would have told them to contact stores or else I'd sue them. I wouldn't care to sue them, but I'd rather force them to be responsible about the situation and ensure there were no other problems.

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HClay
October 31, 2008 10:44 PM
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Well, at least the mouse died to the smell of freshly baked bread. Isn't that the smell of heaven? (along with the smell of fried chicken, or so I remember from some article about a survey, that I read long ago).

Good on the guy for not suing, although I feel he should at least be given some sort of paltry compensation, like a gift card for his favourite grocery store or something.

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closed_account
October 31, 2008 11:05 PM
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FDA \"Defect action level handbook\" [vm.cfsan.fda.gov] .

PEANUT BUTTER IS NASTY: Insect filth
-Average of 30 or more insect fragments per 100 grams
Rodent filth
-Average of 1 or more rodent hairs per 100 grams
Grit
-Gritty taste and water insoluble inorganic residue is more than 25 mg per 100 grams

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TheHans
November 1, 2008 4:18 PM
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@chadbailey: Ugh. I should really think twice before clicking on links. Ummm...thanks?
I'm sure you've seen this one, but for other people who want to know what's being refused, import-wise, here's the link to OASIS: [www.fda.gov]

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midwestkel
October 31, 2008 11:06 PM
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My question is, how did it taste?

But I agree, if there is one then there is probably more and then the mouse is pissing and crapping in the bread mixture, I didn't know they made chocolate chip hot dog buns, type of thing...

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Grrrrrrr, now with two buns made of bacon.
October 31, 2008 11:07 PM
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Somebody slipped him a mickey!

Yes, you would have thought it would have been noticed, but given the nature of automation and considering how many thosands of packages of bread that come out of a factory in a day...maybe not.

Yuck.

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microguy07828
October 31, 2008 11:11 PM
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I worked in the field of Industrial Microbiology for 16 years. In that time I visited hundreds of food plants. I think I have seen it all, everything from the very best to the very worst.


The bakery in question is responsible for maintaining an acceptable Pest Control Program, which is usually contracted out to a reputable pest control company. The pest control technician assigned to their facility will visit their bakery on a regular basis to check for pest activity, log any incidents and take any appropriate actions. The FDA will visit this bakery on a regular basis and will review the pest control program and any notes by the pest control technician. If the FDA feels the pest control program is lacking, the will request that changes be made. If there is evidence of unacceptable pest activity, a 483 (warning letter) may be issued.


Typically, the bakery will have bait stations (poison) outside the perimeter of the building and \"Tin Cats\" along the inside perimeter of the building. Tin Cats are metal, spring-loaded traps along the walls that capture the mice (mice tend to travel along the walls). Poison is not permitted to be used in a food plant. Bait Stations and Tin Cats take care of over 99% of isolated mouse problems.


When the weather gets cold or the mice smell something good inside the building, they will try to get in. Even if the building is in excellent condition and the doors are sealed properly, mice can still get in. They are pretty crafty. I once saw a mouse run right into a food warehouse just as a truck pulled out of the loading dock. There was nothing anyone could do to stop it. If a mouse enters a food plant and does \"typical mouse things\" (like run along the walls), it will probably get caught in a Tin Cat and picked up by the Pest Control Technician during his or her next visit. If Tin Cats are missing, damaged or the mouse behaves atypically, that's when problems occur.


I'm not trying to defend the bakery, because I have never been to their establishment. All I am saying is that even the best pest control program is not fool proof. Accidents and incidents do happen. I assure you that they will take this incident very seriously. I'm sure their pest control company has already been informed and has made an emergency visit to access the situation. They will determine if this is an isolated incident or if this is an infestation problem and will take appropriate action.


Keep an open mind and let the bakery take appropriate corrective action. Don't boycott the brand because of one incident. Chances are that the food plant will now be given the most thorough inspection it has ever received and all related records, procedures and programs will be scrutinized and any fine tuning of the pest control program will be made. Any food you buy from this bakery in the future will probably be safer than it was before this incident.


Just to show you that this stuff does happen, check the link below. It is one of the pictures I used in a training program I developed for a food company.


[www.wayodd.com]

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3 replies
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TootTootToot
November 2, 2008 7:20 PM
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@microguy07828: Thanks for such an interesting and thoughtful response.

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Citron
November 1, 2008 6:28 PM
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@microguy07828: Yes, really!

Also, I'm still a little grossed out by the mouse-in-the-bread.

Will it stop me from buying packaged bread? Pfft. No.

But it's gross, still.

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LostAngeles
November 1, 2008 12:15 AM
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@microguy07828: Immensely interesting and explanatory. Thank you!

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ShadowFalls
October 31, 2008 11:18 PM
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I do happen to respect BJ's actions, they decided to take no risks.

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The_IT_Crone
October 31, 2008 11:18 PM
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When I was a kid I found a long-dead mouse in a package of those Halloween peanut butter chews (the ones that are wrapped in black and orange wax paper like salt water taffy).

I will never, ever eat one again. Just thinking about it makes me want to scream.

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RedwoodFlyer
October 31, 2008 11:20 PM
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I remember seeing a Science Channel (or one of those) thing about M&Ms and Potato chips...they make them fly over a gap, and a camera snaps an image of each piece and compares it against the template. If it doesn't match...a puff of air blows it out of the gap and it gets rejected....don't see why these guys can't do the same thing.

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Darkest Daze
November 1, 2008 9:03 PM
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@RedwoodFlyer:
Yep, my uncle works for a candy company and I got to see it working. It'll even check to make sure the wrapper is twisted the correct number of times, if not...poof.

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Adisharr
November 1, 2008 4:49 AM
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@RedwoodFlyer:

Considering the type of food product under inspection that wouldn't be very easy. Looking at a hard candy or fry is one thing, looking at a bunch of rolls that can vary greatly in the forming and baking process, that's another story. If you look at the picture, the mouse is baked into the side of the bun. I doubt that would have been caught by any inspection system.

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yungjerry703
November 1, 2008 12:08 AM
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@RedwoodFlyer: i thought the same thing, MacDonald's does it with its fries, maybe its not cost effective (enough) for this type of factory/bakery.

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chanh55
October 31, 2008 11:48 PM
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Video: [www.msnbc.msn.com]

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lestat730
November 1, 2008 1:29 AM
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It is nice to see someone not looking for money and just wanting to look out for other peoples well being. Hell, these days when most people find something like this they think it's just as good as holding a winning lottery ticket!

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zyodei
November 1, 2008 3:45 AM
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Surprisingly, the mouse improved the nutrition of the white-bread-and-mystery-meat dinner he had planned.

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Carbonic
November 1, 2008 4:38 AM
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We'll see progress when a mouse trap is baked into the bun.

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Adisharr
November 1, 2008 4:46 AM
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If you've ever been in an industrial baking facility you would see that the odds of catching this are practically nil. I've been in dozens of food plants and most of them do their best to stay as clean as possible. I always seen lots of rats traps around. Rats and mice get in everywhere and are very hard to eliminate completely.

At least this company had the foresight to bake them into their product. That gets them out of the building at least.

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booleyhitt
November 1, 2008 12:24 PM
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Heck, every time you eat processed food, you are ingesting bug and animal parts. It happens. No company in the world can keep every critter out. But still, someone should have noticed this!

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baquwards
November 1, 2008 1:48 PM
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when I was a bakery manager in a grocery store, My cake decorator was frosting carrot cakes. Like almost all grocery stores, the cakes come in already baked and frozen, we would just ice them and decorate them. When she opened the wrapped carrot cake layer, there was a pretty big cockroach baked into the bottom of the cake (we always flipped them upside down and used the flat bottom) the company who provided the product sent a rep to pick up the product(Country Oven, a subsidiary of Kroger), and he tried to convince me that it wasn't a cockroach (which it was), and I asked him, well what difference would that make? Thankfully we started using a different higher end product not too long after that, we had more complaints about how bad tasting their carrot cake was anyway even without cockroaches.

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Skeletoregano
November 1, 2008 5:51 PM
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I'm certain the company will replace the bag and toss in a couple free ones.

That situation happened for me when I found a grizzled toenail on my pizza not long ago. I called and received a replacement pizza, plus a note from the manager for a free one at a future date.

Bad service is going to happen from every company at some point. It's their reaction that makes them a good company.

P.S. I realized later that it wasn't a toenail but a really ancient, shriveled cut of onion. (I probably shouldn't cash in for the free pizza, eh?)

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GoVegan
November 2, 2008 3:55 PM
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He should be thankful he found the mouse. It is probably much better for him to eat that then whats in a hot dog!

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Meathamper
November 2, 2008 11:53 PM
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Heheheheh.

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redkamel
November 3, 2008 12:47 AM
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This is un-accept-able!
-Beldar Conehead

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johnnya2
November 3, 2008 5:57 AM
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For all those who wont eat something because of what the FDA ALLOWS in food products, I think you may be completely destroyed if a microbiological report of yoru very own kitchen were taken. From Ecoli to staph abounds and most homes do not take extra sanitary precautions. I also would say eating the mouse may be better than some of the products filled with HFCS

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bbagdan
November 3, 2008 3:33 PM
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When I worked in an italian restaurant, a customer found a dental crown in a piece of sausage.

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VigilanteKitteh
November 3, 2008 5:52 PM
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This is the new Kitty bread! Cats love that stuff!

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Anonymous
November 4, 2008 10:46 PM
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We saw the comments here about the recent incident concerning hot dog roll safety. Arnold Bakers sincerely apologized to our consumer in Charlotte, North Carolina who purchased a hot dog roll package containing a questionable substance and regrets the resulting consumer concern. On behalf of Arnold Bread, I’d like to share the final lab results on this material. An independent, third party facility Strausburger and Siegel, Inc, Food Testing Laboratory, has analyzed the roll and determined conclusively that the matter is in fact hardened dough, called “pan accumulation.” The report states, “There was no evidence of hairs, excreta, stains, etc. of rodent contamination on or in the rolls or the submitted extraneous matter.” The full certificate of analysis from the laboratory is available upon request (please e-mail arnold@mahercomm.com). Arnold is taking measures to prevent any occurrence of pan accumulation in the future. Thank you for your posting on this important issue. If you have additional questions please call (800) 984 -0989.

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Greg Reid
December 21, 2008 3:02 PM
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At least it wasn't human parts/fingers.

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