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Sorry to nitpick as the first comment, but the story says \"Canon\" while the consumers' story says \"Casio\"...
3 replies
Sorry to nitpick as the first comment, but the story says \"Canon\" while the consumers' story says \"Casio\"...
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Why is it that companies come up with creative excuses when trying to get out of honoring the warranty? Don't let them get away with this.
I'm confused by the whole \"Canon\" thing. I don't know much about digital camera, but does Canon own Casio?
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Paint me confused too...I own an awesome Canon and would never use any other camera.
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The letter should be linked to articles about how to write and effective EECB.
It is thorough, well written and contains a specific and reasonable request and outlines what the consumer may do if not satisfied.
Note that there is no \"I'll never buy your crappy product again. You've lost a customer\" or similar. Sam makes it clear he was an advocate for Cannon and will continue to be, assuming fufil their warranty obligations.
I hope we'll have a follow up to know if Sam was succesful.
As far as I know, Casio and Cannon are two different companies with both being Japanese being the only connection between them.
Excellent complaint letter- more people's complaints should be as directive and forward as this one.
Hopefully it will get somewhere!
Just buy a new one and return the bad one.
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Get the CSI: NY folks on this case. But be sure to use the modern day ones, not the crew from Life On Mars, otherwise it will take a couple of weeks to get a result back.
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PLEASE READ RE. CASIO/CANON CONFUSION
Sorry everyone, \"Canon\" was my mistake. I've corrected it, but for some reason Gawker's servers are being very slow to refresh cached posts today (a typo from my first post this morning is still showing up to a lot of readers).
With any luck the corrected Casio-only version will start appearing soon...
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@Chris Walters: Thanks... I was shocked since I've had nothing but awesome experiences with the very few unfortunate times requiring a camera serviced by Canon.
That reminds me of when I bought a Nikon for my wife to use in a photography class, the F6 I think. Anyway, she used it for about 15 months, the camera breaks and does something similar to OP here, I ship it off to Nikon to get an quote for repair since it was out of warranty.
Long story short, they broke the camera at the repair center before they could even look at it, so they sent me a brand new one without me even asking. I just got a letter and a new camera, plus coupons. I was blown away by that.
I call bull to Casio's argument of voiding the warranty. I dropped my Canon PowerShot S3 IS camera (which is almost as sophisticated as the Casio in question). Figuring that the warranty's no good because I dropped the camera, my friend and I took it apart. Let me tell y'all... once one of these little buggers are apart, it ain't coming back together!
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@dasunst3r: Not true.
There are ample resources online for \"Repair Manuals\" and you can use this as a guide for accurately disassembling your equipment.
When I dropped my Nikon Coolpix a few years back, I suffered with the lack of backlight for a few months. Then I searched out a repair manual in effort to see if I could swap out some parts. I bought a broken one on ebay for $5, replaced the screen and resold the parts camera to others for like $10.
When it came time to replace it, I sold it on ebay for $100 because it was completely functional and still took great pictures.
Obviously the repair techs can put them back together, so there has to be instructions somewhere!
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I can't speak for their cameras, but I love my Casio SK-1 kepboard.
@HIV 2 Elway Resurrected: Ah, I miss my SK-1. I have many fond memories of 10-year-old me making all manner of inappropriate noises into it's 1.5-second sampling buffer.
This is another great way for manufactuers to void a warranty without really trying:
You opened it- we found a fingerprint inside.
You spilled liquids in it- the moisture sensor was activated.
You broke the LCD- not covered.
Any one of these are great because as soon as it's your fault, then they get to ship the broken one back and never have to worry about it again.
@starrion:
How is a broken lcd the company trying to get one over on you? They can go out, or get dead pixels, but they will not break essentially it's liquid sandwiched between a piece of glass and a piece of plastic. what cracks is either the front piece of glass or more often, the back piece of plastic. But they break as often as a window just \"breaks.\" It's one of those things that are virtually impossible. When I worked at HP the only way you would get a free lcd if you sent in your laptop with a broken one was to have the enhanced damage protection plan. And before anyone tries to use a BS \"it got hot and cracked\" excuse, there would be other melted parts on the computer before that would happen as the back plastic doesn't crack when it gets hot, it just melts and won't leave a noticable crack, the front glass is what would crack/spider, but in order for it to get hot enough to make the glass that weak, there would be melted plastic everywhere.
and spill damage was mainly left of to the discretion of an under trained tech. which kinda depended on how much work he wanted to do that day
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@starrion:
It's called loss prevention. Somewhere along the way Casio's Operations and/or Accounting people were under fire from Sales because numbers were down and nothing as of yet had been implemented to offset return dollars they were facing each quarter.
Moisture-sensitive labels, tamper-proof labeling, and obvious no-nos in the warranty are ways to prevent over-zealous returns departments and disgruntled workers from hurting the company's bottom line. They are never there to hurt the customer, but sadly they can and when you tell with low to mid-level customer service they can only offer you what they are told to offer you.
In most cases, companies will yield to reason and logic, but you have to present yourself not as a problem but rather a knowledgeable consumer that will not back down until their concern is addressed. This letter sets that tone.
\"They are never there to hurt the customer\"
That's certainly not true. I used to work for an electronics retailer, and they used -any- excuse to weasel on a warranty. The view was that any time you could deny service, that saved the company money, and the returns people were drilled on all the things to trip people up.
The worse things got financially, the more \"creative\" they got in denying service to people who had paid for warranties. They denied computer returns for failure to return all the packaging. (ie plastic bags and the diagram sheet that went on top)
At some companies, these things are there to hurt the customer.
That retailer is out of business now. I was so happy to find another job.
NJ Small Claims. 24 Dollars, you can file in your own county because this is about something over the mail. File for the full amount of the camera (they add the small claims fee, so don't add that) with a shorter description of the camera problem and the issue with the repair center.
@silver-bolt: Agreed. Might want to name the retailer in the suit in the event Casio wants to claim it's their fault for selling you a CSI camera.
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Canon is repairing my out-of-warranty Powershot digital cam at its own expense; seems a vendor sold them a truckload of faulty sensors.
I've shot Canons since Jimmy Carter was in the White House, and you can have my Canons when you pry them from my cold, dead fingers.
Stick to your guns, Sam. Casio will eventually do the right thing, and probably give you some free stuff too.
@DrJimmy: Which powershot? I have an A610 that went south a few weeks ago and I've seen that the problem I'm having is similar to others. I didn't bother to complain because the camera is over 3 years old and I've since upgraded to an XTI.
@BuddyGuyMontag: Here's the service notice:
It doesn't seem like your camera is on the list. You might give it a try anyways. Also, Canon has a customer loyalty program that allows you to exchange old (broken) cameras for refurbished older generation (one model behind) cameras for excellent prices:
$1000 for a non SLR camera? Holy Crap!
Yeah, but can it take 60 frames per second? It also takes high speed video. This Casio camera is a very niche camera.
@CharlieInSeattle: QFT. You can get an Canon XTI with a few lenses for about 300 less than that at this point.
I'm a lifelong Canon man, but service like that is part of why Nikon has been one of the best camera manufacturers for decades.
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@DrJimmy: I just hope you notice that this was a casio not a canon though teh headline was misleading for a while.
Ask for a picture of the fingerprint. They just might have a working camera handy.
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\"I am a marketing manger, I wouldn't even know how to open it. \"
I LOL'd.
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Bill Heuer
Vice President of QV Division
Casio America, Inc.
Koji Kimura
General Manager of Service Division
Casio America, Inc.
570 Mt. Pleasant Ave.
Dover, NJ 07801
Fax 973-537-8931
@scoosdad: EXCELLENT! They are also in New Jersey! Collecting after you wipe them in court will be an easier process - hope they have a retail outlet somewhere there so the sheriff can stand there and collect your money.
Then - go buy a Canon or Nikon.
Anyone have a fax number for Casio's Japan headquarters or and email address?
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Oh, Casio is taking lessons from Best Buy's camera repair center and claiming all kinds of nonsense. This is now common: claiming water damage, customer opening camera, dropping camera, worn off serial #, etc.. It's to the point where warranties are useless because the customer can always be shown to be at fault.
So far, I am a Canon fan. However, once I learn that Canon is taking the low road, I will look to another brand.
@vastrightwing: I routinely photograph and document any incoming or outgoing products/RMAs so that I have a fighting chance if they pull something like that. Of course, if it's my camera that's in question I may need to borrow one for that purpose.
Agreed about the Canons, I've used them for years after killing anything SONY and have never been happier with the quality. I have an old S300 that wouldn't die - gave it to my dad, then a couple years later bought him another slimmer Canon and have the fully-functional S300 back.
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Did he buy it with a credit card? He can always got the credit card warrenty rout. I do not use them for paying over time, I use them to buy electronice for the added warrenty. If it breaks because I drop it, or leave it on the roof of the car or almost any other reason, I get a new one. Done.
So can Casio prove that while assembling the camera, the employees wore cots on ALL of their fingers? When I have seen some assembly, they usually have 3-4 on, but rarely all 5.
Unlike many of the posters here, I am definitely not a Canon camera fan. A few years ago I purchased a new Canon Optura 20 camcorder. Right after the 1-year warranty expired the iris started sticking wide open, washing out the picture. A Google search showed that many other Optura owners were having the same problem. Obviously, this was a design flaw but Canon denied all responsibility and wanted $200+ for a repair that others who tried it said didn't last. Canon's still cameras might be ok but I'll never know because I'll never buy another Canon camera product.
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I don't know what Chris' dig against Canon in the pre-corrected post was about. Canon was great about repairing our camera. The only issue is that you need to pay for shipping to them, they pay for shipping back to you.
The only thing I know about Canon that bugs some people is that if they find dirt or sand in the lens or camera they use that as evidence for not normal wear and tear and refuse the warranty repair.
Casio on the other hand, you need to pay shipping both ways and that crosses the line in my book.
Buddy;
Mine's an A85. At least a dozen PowerShot models were affected; here's a link to Canon's service notice.
Of course they found a fingerprint, you can't spell Casio without CSI!
You gotta wonder how these companies can go about screwing customers like this. Casio must be in very bad shape right now, and trying anything to affect their short term viability.
Even more than people tend to purchase cars from the same manufacturer for years unless given a good reason not to, I notice a great affinity for buying the electronics from the same manufacturer. Not only the cards and accessories and cross-compatibility are more consistent, I tend to have less of a learning curve if sticking with similar designs.
HOWEVER- if a company pulls something that I find deeply immoral or dishonorable such as SONY's \"rootkit\" criminality, Best Buy's thuggery, or an incident like the OP is relaying to us - then that company is on my personal blacklist - avoided unless no other option is available. And, I will share these stories and warnings with friends and families and others. Just hearing what Casio is putting the OP through has given me a good reason to ignore Casio products and also to let others know how Casio is handling their \"warranties.\"
BTW - isn't a \"warranty\" a legal obligation of the manufacturer? By doing what they have done, wouldn't that be a breach of contract?
Just a word on terminology: Casio didn't void his warranty, Casio DISHONORED his warranty.
There's a difference.
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Way to go, Casio...like a customer is going to open up a $1000 camera while it's still under warranty, and then send it to you for repair.
This is just like the Apple laptop where the tech found \"water marks\" on the inside of the case and promptly notified the customer they weren't going to cover repairs.
It seems to keep coming down to the customer's word against giant mega-company. Sad, too.....Casio used to be a really cool and innovative company.
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As someone who works for a camera store (and has for 15 years) I can tell you there are two companies you need to avoid like the plague for camera. Casio and Kodak, both have some of the worst service when dealing with warranted repairs. We have seen Kodak cameras take up to 6 months to come back for factory warranty issues, and Casio has gotten so bad we don't even send them off unless customers have bought our extended policy. The best? Nikon and Olympus for sure, they come back quickly and most things (except impact damage and liquid) are covered.
Cover PageSubject: Warranty Repair
Message:
I read with great disappointment Casio's stance on the case detailed here:
http://consumerist.com/5062689/casio-voids-warranty-claims-theres-a-fingerprint-inside-new-camera
As a former Casio customer I will now be re-thinking my purchase decisions.
It is interesting to note the positive feedback offered for Canon, Olympus and Nikon.
Doesn't common sense suggest Casio take a different path on this consumer complaint?
--Larry F Alexander
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You know, unless you dropped it, no 35mm SLR made before (let's say) 1990 would require the use of a one-year warranty. We've gone from cameras that didn't need batteries and worked under most conditions without fail to devices that can - after 6 months - completely refused to operate.
For $14, Sam is getting a doorstop returned to him. How ironic.
That was the only good thing HP had going for them was on repairs like that, even if it was obvious the product had been opened and tampered with we couldn't charge the customer with voiding the warranty and just fixed it because we couldn't prove it was done by the customer and not an initial mistake from the assembly plant or from a clumsy \"authorized\" HP repair tech, or from a previous repair at our facility.
If you purchased the camera using a credit card you likely have some form of automatic warranty protection through them. Or, you can describe the situation to your credit card company, and they may decide to issue a charge-back against the camera seller.
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Nikon FTW!!!
I have a coolpix 5000 that is over 6 years old. When the mainboard malfunctioned, OUT of Warranty, they replaced the board with the newest version and firmware free of charge...
Other than that, the eject cf card button failed, it no longer latches in the down position so you can't close the door anymore. When you go to take a picture, your normal hand position interacts with the open door and semi depresses the button which semi ejects the card, hence no picture taking. Repair shops want 200 bucks to repair it. More than the camera is worth...
Replaced the camera with a new D60 and couldn't be happier.
I also cut the eject button off so the door closes now, and I leave that camera in my glove compartment in case of emergencies.
My brother had an older coolpix and it lasted forever as well...
Consumerist,
First off thank you consumerist for publishing my story. I have been in contact with the highest levels of Casio America and they will be covering my claim under warranty. Once the right people found out things moved around quickly. I spoke to Benson and Melissa from the Dover Office NJ and they have really worked everything out. Please keep up the great work with the website you put power back in the consumers hands.
Sam
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The funny part is, if you were to sue them in small claims court. And the finks didn't settle before trial. They would have to bring proof that the end user had opened the camera. Would be pretty easy to do with a fingerprint. I'm fairly certain there are fingerprint analysts that work freelance. Of course usually when a company comes up with a BS excuse for voiding your warranty and you sue in retaliation they become VERY apologetic.
Mind you though, alot of these repair facilities are just third party contractors and aren't involved with the main company (even if they make it transparent). I bet these service centers get a kickback for denied warranty claims.
I was going to buy a Casio G-Shock atomic solar watch, but based on this feed and some customer service issues that I saw on Amazon.com I don't think I can.
It seems like they are being really penny wise and pound foolish, as you can see a general air of customer service that punishes the customer for buying their product.
I am feeling the same pain you went through with Casio Customer Service.
My daughter's Casio Z80 was only 5 months old when it failed. I returned it and they will not cover it under warranty.
I too spoke with Adrienne and according to her she spoke with upper management ( assume either melissa or Benson)and they still would not honor the warranty.
What I can not believe is that they would go out of there way to have such poor customer service. For them the camera probably only cost a few dollars. So instead of satisfying a customer, they prefer to anger them.
Casio has one of the worst customer service departments around - not because they don't care, but because they're technically inept and not authorized to promote issues to the next level, i.e. the product managers who should have there phones and email melting from the ex-f1.
I bought this camera only to discover their 1080i claim is a joke - try editing one of \"their\" 1080i files - good luck!
The way to get even for their scam is to sue, but sue them in small claims for 2-3 times the amount of the camera; you just need to look up which state their US operations are headquartered in, then go to the secretary of state website and look up their \"service agent.\" Send your small claims notice to them after writing a letter (to which they likely won't respond). Go to court. If they do not show up, the judge will likely award you the full amount of your claim. Since Casio doesn't have sovereign stores, you could either put a lien against one of their properties, or legally seize real property from their distribution plant, say cameras or something - that will certainly get their attention. Be sure to call the press when you enter there premises with the sheriff in tow. You may suddenly find a bend over backward apology from those at Casio who (of course) \"had no idea that you were being mistreated.\" Good luck.
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its Casio not Canon.