Imagine a mugger holding a gun to you and saying, "I need you to pay for that gold watch I gave you last week." Confused, you say, "Uh, you never gave me a gold watch." The mugger says, "Hey buddy, pay me for that watch or else..." He cocks the hammer. Ok, that's a little melodramatic, but essentially that's what Orbitz is doing to Josh; they want him to pay for a ticket they never sold him, or else they'll send him to collections.
]]>June of last year, I tried to book a ticket for my brother through Orbitz. The process went as usual and when I completed my transaction, I was presented with a screen telling me to expect a confirmation email shortly.
Several days later and with 48 hours to go before the flight, still no email. So I called the fine customer service folks at Orbitz and was told, in no uncertain terms, that they did not have a reservation for my brother or myself (just in case I had made a mistake on my end filling out the form). I was then offered the opportunity to buy a new ticket at $200 above what I had originally signed up for. I had to pass and my brother missed a very important family event.
Move forward in time a week, and I find that my BofA checking account has charges from Orbitz and the airline I had originally booked through (American Airlines). You know, the flight that didn't exist.
I called Orbitz again and was now told that Orbitz never gives refunds. I escalated from one outsourced call center worker to another equally inept call center worker who read from the same script. Since that went nowhere, my next call was to BofA.
It took a lot of time and documentation, but I finally received a letter in October from BofA letting me know that the funds I had been forwarded when I initially disputed the charge was to be made permanent.
So what's the problem? The call I got today from Orbitz telling me that they got a letter from American Airlines hadn't received payment and that I would be sent to collections.
Is this true? How can this be? I am lost and confused and just plain fed up. Any guidance or suggestions would really help.
Let's see, some options:
1) Resubmit your disputation of the charges with Bank of America
2) Forward your complaint to BoA's CEO (address here).
3) Hire an attorney specializing in consumer debt cases
Any other notions out there?
(Photo: Shermeee)
]]>Not sure if you resolved your situation yet but I had a situation like this recently. I tried to buy a ticket and was (what I eventually learned from them) soft charged for the reservation. After the reservation failed to go through (internet timed-out)…so without a reservation number or even an account with orbitz, I called my credit card company to make sure I wasn’t charged. Sure enough, I was. After getting the run around from orbitz (they told me I had to get my bank’s fax number so they could fax a form to reverse the process). I called my bank and that lady said it was impossible and that orbitz would have to call them.
Finally, I called orbitz again. Explained the situation. And conference called my bank (who sent me to some special agent that does this kind of stuff all day). The orbitz representative provided them with confirmation codes that verified who he was so they finally took the charges off.
According to both my bank and orbitz, soft charges means you aren’t actually charged yet…it’s just to reserve the ticket. If the merchant doesn’t “re charge” your card, they supposedly disappear after 5 days. However, I doubt they’d find difficulty in actually charging you for something they didn’t give you; like in your case.
I hope this sort of helps…orbitz definitely gives refunds; that’s a ridiculous statement from some stupid worker. I’m not sure about what other people might have told you. Anyway, goodluck.
But yeah, this is pretty bad. As others have said, it's illegal to charge someone for a service not delivered on.
]]>2. Write a letter to Orbitz/AA detailing everything. I'd actually expect it to end there, but....
3. IF they do send it to collections tell them it's not a valid debt, and not to contact you.
4. IF they dun you (spelling?) you can collect damages under the fair credit reporting act. There's also strict rules on collection agency behavior--keep a record of all calls and what's been said.
Finally I'd call whoever your local consumer reporter is & see if they can help, or consumer affairs at the secretary of state. (Couldn't hurt.)
DON'T just ignore it, and don't forget to keep good notes.
]]>Then again, maybe you should chalk it up to a bad experience and not
waste any more time or energy on something you have no control over.
NOW because of the lack of e-mail HE did the very very smart and right thing. he called in confirmation. THAT seals the deal for him.
HE DID his due diligence the problem is orbitz. American is also in the right here. They also did nothing wrong but the target is orbitz not the OP and that is what needs to be clarified.
I would not deal with AA at all. If they contact you explain that I have no business with you I have business with orbitz and I have resolved that dispute. If you still have a problem take it up with orbitz.
]]>Please clarify. Orbitz (and any other company that uses credit cards) has an agreement with the card issuers that if they lose a chargeback, that is the final word.
The financial institution is the final arbiter of whether the service was delivered. If this was not the case, you would quickly see how pointless the protection of your credit card is and how quickly a massive industry of pursuing chargebacks would pop up. Believe me - there is no such industry. You lose a chargeback, you lost the money.
]]>Collections agencies are a joke, and anyone who gives in to them is a sucker. They're just professional bullies, but they have no authority and no power. Despite what they'll tell you, they can't do anything to your credit, garnish your wages, charge your bank account, etc...
I would totally just ignore this. If Orbitz contacts you again, tell them that as far as you're concerned, this situation is resolved and you will take no further action. When their collection goons call you, just tell them that you don't Orbitz or the airline anything and to stop harassing you. Make sure to use the word "harassment" whenever they call you. Also make sure to be clear that you don't owe anyone anything. Suggest they take the matter to small claims court themselves (assuming the amount they think you owe is under $5000).
Eventually, the cost of the collection agency will be more than Orbitz or the airline wishes to continue to spend and one of two things will happen: They'll either take you to small claims court (highly unlikely, given the cost of it and the likelihood they would lose), or they'll just cut the loss and go away. If they do take you to court, just show up with all your documentation, and you should be fine.
]]>Second, exactly what do you think Orbitz is going to do to you? They can make loud noises but all you need to do is respond:
"I'm sorry but your records are in error, I do not owe you this amount. Please update your records accordingly. Be advised that you will be held liable for any erroneous information reported to a consumer credit agency, including the costs of removing the erroneous information, damages resulting from such information, and any associate legal expenses."
Third, why would you ever buy through Orbitz? They charge you $30 (or something like that) extra per ticket. Instead, use their search engine to find the fare you want then buy it directly from the airline's website. This saves you $30, possibly gets you a lower fare if the airline has web-only specials, and you amy also earn bonus flyer-miles for using their website (for example delta does this). Buying the tickets form Orbitz is a sucker's deal. I also suspect you'll get better customer service from an airline then you will from Orbitz, particularly if you fly enough to get elite status.
]]>Also, in the future, never never never use a debit account.
]]>Apparently they don't need money at all, considering how much effort they are putting into losing customers.
]]>"I find that my BofA checking account has charges from Orbitz..."
Did everyone referring to a "chargebacks" and "credit card company" notice this important information (no credit card used)? Sounds like a good idea, but a different set of rules apply when you don't use a credit card, making chargebacks all the more difficult.
]]>Fast forward to a few weeks later and I get a charge on my credit card for one of the two nights of the hotel room.
I called the convention travel site and they said that it was my responsibility to call them and check to see if they had actually processed my hotel reservation even though they told me that they hadn't online.
I called the hotel and told them the story, they were very understanding and luckily had rebooked my room to someone on a waiting list for that night so I was off the hook and they credited it back to my Amex.
But the gist of the story is that these big travel booking companies think it's our responsibility to check and recheck to see if they're going to take our money, even if they said they couldn't give us our booking.
]]>When you disputed with the CC company, Orbitz was obligated to provide proof that the charge was legitimate.
They obviously were unable to, or the charge would not have been reversed.
Let them report you to a collections agency. Third-party collections are far more heavily regulated.
The moment you receive a collections notice, demand proof of the debt. You can reply with the chargeback data indicating that your credit card company was unable to find a reasonable basis that the charge was valid, therefore no money was owed.
]]>Can orbiz proove they sent a confirmation email?
]]>That being said there are tools you can use. Obviously hiring an attorney is an option but that will not save you any money - ie you probably will pay the attorney more than you will save.
I agree with P41 and others. Also, isn't there a consumerist post on fair debt collection. I believe there are letters that Consumerist has that you can send which may get them off your back.
Reminder - if this were to go to court Orbitz or AA has to prove that they provided you with something - the consumer does not have the burden to prove that nothing was provided.
]]>Apparently, it searches over 200 travel websites. It was well-reviewed in some random magazine I read a few months ago.
]]>Because I know AmEx won't stand for this.
Sue their ass for fraud, extortion, harassment, and if they actually do send it to collections, slander, libel and defamation. Oh, and yeah, contact your attorney general and have charges pressed.
]]>It would not matter if he's on the National DO-Not-Call list. Since he's done business with them, they have full rights withing the National Do-Not-Call program to continue to contact him in the future.
I agree with reporting them to BofA. But I doubt anything good will come of it, because BofA could reverse their decision and charge you for it anyway.
Apparently AA never got the message from BofA and Orbitz that the matter had been settled, so maybe you should try to contact AA and explain it to them. Or this could be a shady scam on Orbitz' part to leech money from it's customers.
]]>If you hire a lawyer be prepared to pay for it yourself until you win a big lawsuit. Otherwise:
Report them to BofA. (not often they're the good guys here)
Send a copy of the dispute resolution from BofA to Orbitz, (registered mail, return receipt) and also tell them you don't have a business relationship and not to call you again. (You are on the national do-not-call list, right? You can report them.)
You should also consider pointing out that this behavior sounds exactly like extortion. If they send you anything in the mail, report it as mail fraud to the postmaster.
Oh also shouldn't it be Bank of America they send to collections, not you? Ha ha ha.
If you start getting calls from collectors, they're unlikely to accept your story, no matter how true. So be sure the first thing to ask them is who you're talking to (name and company name) and how to contact them. That way you can report them to the police (extortion and harrassment) and you document their behavior after you tell them you already won the dispute against these fraudulent charges and to never call you again.
]]>Write Orbiz a letter pointing out that the debt is totaly disputed, has been reversed out and that if they attempt to sell the debt to a collections agency without notifying them of that fact they will have committed fraud.
Their 'no-refunds policy' is clearly illegal, if they failed to supply the service there is no debt.
Threats regarding credit agencies etc. in this situation would appear to be an attempt at extortion.
]]>Bookings are done via GDS (worldspan/apollo) and direct supplier links, again - different negotiated pricing.
It's silly to just automatically go right to the airline for booking. If you have a problem chances are you're calling the same outsourced customer service center - they just answer the phone different. Sometimes the airline direct is cheapest, sometimes not. Use kayak to see :)
I think the true issue here is that the OP waited several days and then decided to call 48 hours before his trip. Regardless of a confirmation email or not, you can login and check the status of your tickets, or login to bank of america and see the charge.
If a ticket is issued and he didnt show - he's on the hook.
]]>Book airfare: The airline's actual website.
Booking through Orbitz or another 3rd party provider: Tends to more frequently lead to problems, such as this poster experienced.
]]>I love using kayak, although it is not able to find the price of southwest flights.... :(
]]>I'm wondering if calling the airline might have clarified things at that point. Certainly I now know it's worth checking with the airline if a reservation service claims my reservation didn't go through.
]]>I learned the hard way that when there is a problem, the travel website blames the airline, and the airline blames the travel site. Both send you back and forth to each other for months, and nothing is resolved.
]]>"it's stories like these that really make me feel powerless as a consumer."
...which is why I try to avoid being a consumer these days.
]]>Orbitz: please ignore the commenters. Keep spending your money collecting flight, fare, and seat info. Charge people for flights you don't sell them. I need you to help me compare prices! If you don't, who will? Expedia? BestFares.com? Come on, those guys are weanies!
]]>i had a similar problem with the old at&t wireless (billing error that i refused to pay & disputed over & over again) & after the 3rd collection company, i just folded.
luckily some lawyers have had some success battling companies recently - i'd suggest investigating that route.
]]>So? You say that like it's supposed to represent an obstacle to a company coming after someone for money. I'm sure American is coming after them, and I'm sure Orbitz's guys are saying "geez, all we did was make a little mistake! Why should we have to pay the price, when we're a huge corporation and Josh is just a little guy?"
]]>American does.
]]>But....
I think Orbitz knows that. This isn't Uncle Bob's Travel Time Website. So I think we're not getting the whole story. Can you give us more information?
]]>