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womynist
August 29, 2008 4:02 PM
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Any info on who to contact in states other than NY to find what the laws are?

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uhohsmmoreo
August 29, 2008 4:15 PM
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I'm also wondering. As a 17 year old driver in Massachusetts, this is particularly relevant as the extra six cents per gallon really does add up when using a credit card.

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chiieddy
August 29, 2008 4:19 PM
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@uhohsmmoreo: You're a 17 year old with a credit card?!

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ffmariners
August 29, 2008 4:36 PM
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@chiieddy: I had a credit card at 17. I have never missed a payment, nor have I carried a balance for more than a month or two (consumption smoothing).


I have excellent credit at 22 now... so it worked out well.

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snowburnt
August 29, 2008 8:56 PM
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@ffmariners: if you want better credit, maintain a minimal balance from month to month so that you pay some interest. You rub their back they'll rub yours.


Anyone know about Virginia laws regarding this?

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uhohsmmoreo
August 29, 2008 4:28 PM
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@chiieddy: Yes. It's for emergencies and gas, and I'll occasionally do some food shopping or run errands for my mom and use the credit card. It's not that uncommon around here.

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MaxSmart32
August 29, 2008 4:22 PM
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Just to make a point...it seems that the article is talking about two different geographic regions: New York City and New York State. Knowing that I am going to be travelling home to upstate New York tonight, is that 25% of gas stations primarily in the City, or what?

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floraposte
August 29, 2008 4:40 PM
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@max-hiding-in-the-forrest32: If you look at the actual release, it's pretty clear. Cuomo is the AG of New York State, and the laws he's talking about apply to the whole state, but the investigation scope was just New York City. So the numbers could be higher, lower, or the same in the rest of the state. It's probably worth keeping your eyes peeled for this across the country on general principle anyway.

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Amiga_500
August 29, 2008 4:35 PM
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I had my first credit card through Chase at 15, with no parent cosigner!

I've never seen different prices for credit cards, but I have seen several places that only accept cash.

On another note, why to they stop gas transactions at $75. On the pump sticker, it said to swipe your card a second time if you need more that $75 in gas. Do they save money by you having to swipe your card again?

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Nytmare
August 29, 2008 4:42 PM
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@Amiga_500: Because the card companies set the hold value at a standard $75. Instead of asking how much credit you have available, the gas pump asks if you have $75 and then places a hold for that amount until you're done pumping.

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Orv
August 29, 2008 4:38 PM
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Now prices will go up for everyone to make up for the credit card fees.

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Aesteval
August 29, 2008 4:40 PM
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The only signs that I've seen in my area of New York explicitlyadvertise the lower price as being cash only. There are even some thatexplicitly advertise the regular price and the cash only discount. Soeither gas stations in the NYC area are a whole world different thanaround here, or NY has an overly zealous AG on its hands (I'm leaningtowards both.) I like some of the things that Cuomo has gone after, butcan't help but wonder if he's chasing shadows at some of them.

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floraposte
August 29, 2008 5:58 PM
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@Aesteval: I think the point is that there aren't signs--that people are just finding a different price at the pump once they swipe their cards.

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DerangedRoleModel
August 29, 2008 4:46 PM
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I swear it's much more than 25% on Long Island. I'd say almost 75% that have that different pricing for cash and credit, and almost all of those do not list the price for credit on the big signs on the road. They prey on you pulling in and not noticing until you look up on the smaller price signs above the pump.

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suburbancowboy
August 29, 2008 4:46 PM
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I live in NY. The other day I went to the gas station with my tank almost on empty. I someone managed to magically put 17.5 gallons of gas in a 16 gallon tank. Thanks gas station!

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Zimorodok
August 29, 2008 5:23 PM
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@suburbancowboy: Forget the AG, call the Dept of Weights & Measures. The number is on the pump's inspection sticker. If a gas pump is off W&M will come down on the station like the wrath of God.

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BeeBoo
August 29, 2008 4:52 PM
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@suburbancowboy: If you're sure your tank really only holds 16 gallons total then you need to report this fraud to the AG's office.

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summerbee
August 29, 2008 4:54 PM
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I also had a credit card at age 16 from a federal credit union. I only used it for large purchases and would pay it back immediately to build credit.


Anyway, I'm in PA, and I just drove away from a gas station the other day for this very reason. I believe it was a Getty station. I saw something like $3.60 on the sign and then $3.80 as the price on the pump. I didn't have cash on me, so I walked inside and asked the cashier about the price discrepancy. Assuming that they simply didn't get around to changing the signage yet, I asked for a courtesy discount based on the advertising I saw from the road. (I was on the way to work in the morning, and my tank was nearly on E.) He denied me any discount and told me to use cash if I wanted the cheaper price.


I wasn't about to let them have an extra twenty cents per gallon, so I drove the rest of the way to work and crossed my fingers that I wouldn't run out of gas. Has anyone found a list of state-by-state law yet?

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toddkravos
August 29, 2008 5:25 PM
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I sure wish Ohio had such a law. There are a few stations in the Cleveland market that will do a sliding up-charge when paying with plastique:
What I've seen typically looks like:
5c/gal for the low grade
8c/gal for mid a
10c/gal for the high


While some stations simply do a 5c/gal surcharge.

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Apeweek
August 29, 2008 5:30 PM
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This violates credit card agreements, too. I once called up Visa to ask about being surcharged for using credit, and they refunded me the difference instantly.

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taking_this_easy
August 29, 2008 5:49 PM
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@Apeweek: i know its supposed to be against the credit card agreement


but i called Macy (they have a Visa card...) the CSR on the phone said it wasnt illegal(I wanted to chargeback some amount on a company because they charged cc fees on me, wanted to make sure)..... probably a low-level guy...

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thnkwhatyouthnk
August 29, 2008 5:48 PM
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Hmmm.. I live in Long Island, NY and I noticed a sign on a pump at a Citgo station that was charging different prices for cash and credit. The sign said something along the lines of \"We pay surcharges for credit and debit purchases and must pass them onto the customer.\" I should probably go back there and take a picture of that asap.

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harlock_JDS
August 29, 2008 5:48 PM
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what if it's not a surcharge on credit but a discount on cash. That's how the stations i go to in NJ spin it personally i love the extra 10 cents savings per gal and don't see why i have to pay more for the convenience of people who use credit cards.

Assuming that the signs show both prices of course, showing just the cash price and upchargeing the credit price is shady.

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Orv
August 29, 2008 8:06 PM
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@harlock_JDS:
Cash discount = OK
Credit card surcharge = Not OK

It's a purely semantic difference, but that's how the merchant agreements are written.

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schiff
August 29, 2008 6:00 PM
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The gas station I usually go to, Floral Park Gas, puts a price on the large sign by the road and hangs a small sign under it that says \"CASH\". Does this make it legal?

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Verucalise (Est.February2008)
August 29, 2008 6:02 PM
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Yes, I see this in Albany all the time. I tell my family if they see it, to write down who it is and tell me, I'LL REPORT THEIR @SSES.

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megsuma
August 29, 2008 7:14 PM
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I'd also just like to note that this struck a particular chord with me. Deceptive would describe the Exxon on the corner of Cornwallis and Church here in Greensboro, NC. I went for gas this morning and pulled into the available pump - with the sign reading $3.59 out front, I wasn't happy but hey, gotta keep the wheels a-movin'. I pumped my gas, got ready to leave and then noticed the price on the pump - $3.89 for regular!! Deceptive, yes, but even more frustrating because I neglected to see the \"Full\" sign above the pump, apparently indicating that the pump - the only open when I pulled in - was full service. Well, great, glad your one-word sign was so descriptive and helpful. To boot, no one even came out to actually service my car, but I got to still pay the extra $0.30/gallon \"tax\" for their effort.

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jswilson64
August 29, 2008 7:24 PM
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Here's one I noticed a couple of months ago:
Gas station sign advertised $3.79. The pumps were the type with a digital price under or next to the big yellow button for the grade of gas, ane the pump indicated Total, Gallons, and Price per Gallon.


When I pulled up to the pump, the price display next to 87 Octane said $3.79. After I swiped my card, authorized transaction, etc., I pushed the yellow button for 87 octane gas. Pump reset to 0's, but the Price per Gallon in the upper display had magically jumped to $3.93!!!


I think the station was using the cash/credit different price setting to slip a higher price in. How many people look at the price once they hit the yellow button, anyway?

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megsuma
August 29, 2008 7:34 PM
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@jswilson64: Crafty indeed!

I also just told my friend about this article, and she reminded me of another great anecdote. You see, she was buying gas recently and we're all used to seeing Regular - Super - Premium; 1-2-3, at the pump. We KNOW the order of these things because its always been that way. She started pumping with the first selection, only to find that the station had switched the position of the Regular - 2-1-3, so she bought Super by accident. Easy to avoid, but as jswilson64 points out, force of habit can really work against you in the case of the shady gas station.

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Bruce
August 30, 2008 9:54 AM
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@megsuma:
Regarding the nozzle order of the regular - mid-grade and premium, depending on where you buy your gas, the order can change on the other side of the pump due to the internal plumbing of the pump itself. 1-2-3 on one side and 3-2-1 on the other side.

I've seen this at several different stations around where I live.

Some stations of the same brand have the 2-1-3 order, some don't. It's possible that it's configured that way to catch the unaware motorist or it could be due to the make/model of that pump at a particular station is different than one across town of the same brand gas.

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Aesteval
August 29, 2008 11:01 PM
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@megsuma: I've done that once. I don't thinkin my case it was anything wrong with the gas station, they justhappened to have it ordered differently and I should have paid moreattention to what I was hitting. I was also in a different region aswell, so maybe all the gas pumps are in that order there.

@floraposte: Yeah, but that's only half mypoint. I'm not convinced that every station that received notice fromCuomo was doing what he alleged they were doing. In fact I've seenremarks from station owners that are explicitly stating about the cashdiscount aspect and still received notice from him. I'm against falseadvertising and all that, but I'm also somewhat sympathetic towardssomeone that's only fairly trying to cover their expenses. And I've gota really bad habit of relating Cuomo to Spitzer with all of the highprofile, high media coverage that Cuomo's been doing. I'm all for doingwhat's right, but I've got the severely creeping feeling that the onlyreason why Cuomo is doing half the stuff that he's doing is solely forpolitical aspirations. In some ways it's irrational on my part and Iadmit that.

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megsuma
August 30, 2008 1:00 AM
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@Aesteval:

I wasn't trying to really say that the order switch was wron per se, but confusing nonetheless. The Full-service incident was my fault really, but to see an advertised price flips this \"autopilot\" switch - well, it did. I'm going to start paying attention again lol

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Triborough
August 29, 2008 7:56 PM
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New York's Attorney General, Andrew Cuomo is probably running for Governor, so expect more of these brand awareness campaigns.

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knightracer
August 29, 2008 8:04 PM
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I've also noticed some stations who have changed the order to Super - Regular - Premium

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snowburnt
August 29, 2008 8:57 PM
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also, I noticed one gas station advertising a cash discount, so some businesses are figuring it out

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socalrob of the 24 and a half century
August 29, 2008 10:51 PM
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Every Arco does this. In California at least. They list only the cash price, then if you pay with a debit card or credit card its a 45 cent charge per purchase service fee.


They may get around it though because they dont list any other price on the pump either, only the cash price.

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AlexPDL
August 29, 2008 11:23 PM
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Gas stations are franchises and their small time owners are pretty shady at times. I've heard all sorts of horror stories about shiester franchise owners watering down gas and faking all sorts of docs.

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scootinger
August 30, 2008 12:21 AM
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One sort of \"deceptive practice\" that's annoyed me recently is how here in Oklahoma gas stations started to put ethanol in their gas without any sort of notice. I think it's fraud to sell a product called \"gasoline\" that isn't actually entirely gasoline but is partially composed of another substance that oftentimes reduces your gas mileage. I almost don't blame the station owners, seeing as if one decided to be honest about their product, then they would likely lose business and the others still wouldn't have an incentive to be honest. (except for the stations that specifically advertise that they sell gas with no ethanol, which seems to be somewhat of a niche product) however thankfully, a state law ordering stations that sell gas with ethanol to place a notice notifying the customer recently went into effect.

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Drew5764
August 30, 2008 6:33 PM
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@scootinger:

I haven't seen a gas station (granted I'm in NYC) that sells plain gasoline as far back as I can remember (I've been driving for 10 years). I'm fairly certain they all put 10% ethanol in now.

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Dansc29625
August 30, 2008 5:15 AM
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\"Cuomo noted that customers who use credit cards already pay a premium to the credit card company. An additional \"usage fee\" at the pump doubly penalizes the customer.\"

I've never paid a \"premium\" to a credit card company. (Is he talking about intrest? Annual Fee? I cant figure out what he is talking about there. I believe it is totally fair to charge a \"processing fee\" for a credit card (even if it does violate the law). Why should those who trade in cash have to share in the burden of a higher price due to your credit card's merchant fees? Always ask for a cash discount.

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Drew5764
August 30, 2008 6:35 PM
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@Dansc29625:
You can cask for a cash discount, but the Merchant agreement still stands. Visa/MC/whomever don't get business (you don't get their protection either, so maybe use an AMEX instead) because of the practice, so they prohibit it. The stations stand to lose a lot more money if they lose the ability to accept major cards than if they lost a couple of cents per gallon.

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citrus538
September 1, 2008 9:27 AM
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This happens all over the place in So-Cal, never saw it when I lived in NY. Is this legal in California?

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Brontide
September 2, 2008 5:46 PM
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I'm sure Mobil's sleazy carwash scheme will be allowed under Cuomo's rules. They headline the 10c discount with the regular in smaller print below it.

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goOutSide
September 2, 2008 7:16 PM
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I live in Rochester, NY. How's this for sleazy: You can get at a Hess station next to where I work for 3.58 a gallon, yet if you go 1 mile down the highway to the next exit, gas at a Hess station is 3.75 a gallon. Same mileage from the highway, and 1 extra mile per tanker driven in, does not constitute the extra 17 cents per gallon. Oh and less than 5 miles up that same highway, another Hess station is 3:85 a gallon. Yay price gouging!!

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