From CNN:
During the presentation, Stephen and Jean were told they could get discounted condo rates and other travel benefits around the world. They decided to join -- for $7,500. Jean said they were assured they could cancel within three days.
Before Stephen and Jean even left, they were offered a discount coupon for Red Lobster.
"We really enjoy Red Lobster," Jean said. "We thought it was a bonus for joining."
They were asked to sign a piece of paper after they received the card. The Liangs didn't think much about it.
"We thought we needed to sign it to show we'd gotten the card," Jean said.
But, unfortunately, Stephen and Jean didn't realize that by accepting the Red Lobster card, they had used the services of the travel club. And by signing that piece of paper, they were waiving their right to cancel their membership.
But the couple soon found out the next day when they tried to cancel.
Jean said they felt deceived. "This is really, really wrong. A person's word is what they are." The couple found out the hard way that it doesn't always work that way.
The BBB warns consumers that they receive lots of complaints about these travel clubs. Here's what they have to say about them:
“Vacation clubs, special travel agent training and bargain-finder software, often aren’t good deals because initial costs are rarely recouped by any future savings on travel costs since the bargains and special deals don’t really exist as portrayed in the sales pitches," said the BBB's spokesperson. “Consumers need to be very wary of travel club offers and research the companies extensively before committing any money or giving out credit card or bank account information.”
It's better to save your pennies than bet them on a deal that may never come.
Watch out for the 'free' stuff [CNN] (Thanks, prameta1!)
(Photo: danesparza )
In that case, it is very possible that the second thing they signed just said something like "we received the coupon". It would be reasonable for them to sign it if the sales guy was like "oh, you have to sign this so I can prove that I gave it to you instead of pocketing it myself". Also, if the travel club talked about, well, travel the entire time, they would have no reason to think that a coupon for red lobster would be considered one of its "services".
Now, I still think it is questionable to sign up for something and accept the free gifts with no intention of staying in the club, but it is entirely plausible that reading the fine print would not have helped them here, either.
]]>So while I think that companies/salespeople who do these kinds of
scammy presentations & hoodwink people into signing away their
rights by dangling a carrot... are, well, unethical... And should be
illegal if they're using deceit...
I still find it very difficult to feel sorry for people who fall for this sort of thing.
They went in, and signed up, and thought they could get all these free
perks or gifts or whatever, with every intention of cancelling.
It's the sort of thing that makes the old saying "You can't cheat an honest person" sound spot on.
It's like that membership company I heard about a year or 2 ago that offered deep discounts on upscale pricey home building/decorating goods. Immediately when I heard about it - I knew it had to be a scam, or scam-ish. Or just not worth it. Or something fishy was going on at the very least.
They hook in people who want to build & decorate beyond their means. They appeal to vanity by offering steep discounts on uppity products & materials that the people interested realize they could never afford normally. So then the people shell out a few thousand dollars... only to find out, they shouldn't have spent those few thousand dollars, never mind that they can't afford the high flying materials & products... even at a reasonable discount. The company makes money either way.
There's plenty of easy pickins for con artists, perpetrators of
fraud, and just garden variety less than ethical slick salesmen who
know that greed, envy, and pride are huge weaknesses in many people.
The American Dream of life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness has
been extended to include the usually unrealistic goal of living like
wealthy inherited counts & dukes of old times. Middle management
spreadsheet jugglers seem to think they're akin to feudal lords just
because their job gives them the responsiblity to organize some
employees. Surely they deseve a gated estate & the finest carriage.
It should be needless to say that these people have drawbridges that
don't reach all the way across the moat. But in a culture that often
applauds insane & irrational goals, it's almost considered normal
to want what's too good to be true.
Best to realize that you probably won't ever get near all you think you deserve. And more people should just be grateful that they're not getting what other people think they deserve!
]]>I'm a lawyer - I have intelligent, well-educated, careful friends who miss and/or misunderstand the fine print on contracts, and it's not because they're greedy or dumb; it's because 'fine print' can be difficult to figure out when there's NOT somebody trying to rip you off. Go over and look at the "credit cards are the devil" post here, where people are arguing that just because your credit card company says it can do anything it wants to you, heck, you shouldn't be afraid that it WILL, because they usually behave.
]]>If the paper said nothing about "this is you waiving your right to cancel" then yes, it's a scam. If they fell into signing their name on a piece of paper without reading it and it did say that, well. That would be one expensive lesson.
]]>Is is possible to find out the actual name of the travel club business offering the travel club membership for seventy five hundred dollars? I was hoping to read specifics... and how much was the coupon for Red Lobster actually worth? We know the presentation was attended by Stephen and Jean Liang of Kansas City, Missouri. So, the name of the travel club is ____________. Thank you.
]]>IMO the fact that the 2nd paper was presented AFTER the coupon was presented and to our knowledge it wasn't explained as a waiver for the cancellation period option makes it seem questionable.
"We thought we needed to sign it to show we'd gotten the card," Jean said.'
That doesn't sound like the words of someone who's had a good read at what they're signing, does it?
As I said earlier, I don't know WHAT they signed (and neither do you). They state that they thought it was one thing which it obviously wasn't, so I'd be interested to know what it was.
Ultimately we don't know what happened, but I'm more likely to sympathize with someone who got scammed than with the asshole who scammed them, even if it's something I could see through instantly. PLUS since I have older parents I'd like to know more about these scams and how they prey on people so that I can help my folks keep an eye out for problems. They're pretty clever, but they are also inclined to trust people so I do worry about people trying to scam them as they get older (but let's face it, any of us can get scammed).
]]>They always put an artificial sense of urgency. Sign now or never... If you don't sign that's the end, but if you DO sign, you get a 3 day right to cancel..
]]>'They were asked to sign a piece of paper after they received the card. The Liangs didn't think much about it.
"We thought we needed to sign it to show we'd gotten the card," Jean said.'
That doesn't sound like the words of someone who's had a good read at what they're signing, does it?
To the Mod: Why aren't people allowed to express opinions on these stories anymore? Are you saying that we should only be sympathetic and feel bad for people or not post anything? I think by not reading something completely, it's laziness. I think by signing something simply to get a coupon for some food, is greedy. It wasn't a baseless accusation, it's my opinion.
]]>I like Red Lobster, but not THAT much!
]]>I knew someone in Florida who also loved going to timeshare sales presentations - he had a lot of fun jerking the salespeople around. Would let them go on and on and sound interested, then suddenly just collect whatever they were giving away and walk away. Not my idea of fun and I don't need any more junk than I already have. I know that most of us feel we're way too saavy to fall for this kind of stuff, but these salespeople are really really good at what they do. That being said, we all must read before signing anything - no if's, and's or but's.
]]>By the end it's "Okay, instead of 14 days of unrestricted use, you get two days, with blackout dates. The partner benefits are limited, and we don't waive any surcharges. However, that does only put you at $600 a year, which is within your budget. How about it?"
]]>I stayed for 5 days at a five-star resort in Hawaii one time very cheap in exchange for going to their timeshare presentation. Afterwards I told them if they ran my credit they would see I couldn't afford it even if I wanted it. They just said OK thanks bye and that was it.
After they retired my grandparents made a hobby of going to timeshare presentations for the free "$5000 or a big screen TV*" (*or other gift). They were ultratightwads and would have never bought anything anyway. They ended up with a pile of ceiling fans, portable black/white TVs, tire inflaters, chinese-made tool sets and all kinds of other cheap crap.
]]>What are the scammers going to do - sue them? Any judge would laugh them out of court and invalidate the adhesion contract.
]]>Smells like a deliberate attempt to fraudulently misrepresent the contract terms. They were given an assertion they could cancel within three days, why does the coupon take priority over the statement? Answer: it does not necessarily take priority.
]]>Essentially, it's okay to point out alternative routes of action, cautions to other readers, suggestions, advice, and so on. It should be constructive. We'd like to tone down the level of smug superiority and name-calling that scam posts have attracted; it's not necessary, not helpful, and is ultimately disruptive.
]]>Whenever we see an article about how someone got scammed, way too many people pipe up and try to show how clever they are by ragging on whoever it was that got scammed. We get it, you're super brains who think you know every possible way to get conned and you clearly don't need to be reading the consumerist. You can now go on and live happy, scam free lives because you're way too smart to ever get taken advantage of by someone.
Sheesh.
Without knowing, EXACTLY what the people signed (and what laws apply to legal documents in their area) it's impossible to know that they didn't sign a large lined sheet (like a sign in sheet or petition form) that only obliquely referred to some other document that explicitly waived the cancellation option. That's a known trick that petitioners use (walk up to someone ask them to sign a petition on one thing and then have them sign a petition that is for something else entirely). I don't know if that would be valid to waive a cancellation option clause in a contract, but I wouldn't be shocked if it could (in some areas).
That's often one of the important things to consider about a lot of "deals" where are these businesses chartered? That can even be of interest for credit cards and loans. In what state (or country) is the legal entity incorporated? Ultimately the thing to remember is that scam artists, banks, credit card companies, Wal-Mart, they all have large teams of lawyers looking out solely for their interests and consumers have to be wary and in places like the consumerist, share their experiences.
Instead of trying to point out how stupid these people were, look at how the company wrote up a contract that said one thing and then at the last minute got people to sign an amendment that dramatically affected their rights. I like to think that I'm pretty savy, but I wouldn't have through anyone would try something THAT sleazy and honestly I'm curious to know more about how they did it. It's easy to think that we won't fall for something when we see it coming, but if we should take away anything from these stories, it's that a lot of times you don't see it coming and all you can do is be on the look out for warning signs.
]]>Consumerist is getting a bit behind apparently and is missing some things:
When will there be a post about "Mona-Vie"??
I have a friend who has just gotten scammed into this and wanted me to get into it. The two shysters from Quixtar and Amway are involved in it. This bottle of pure BS is supposed to cure everything from depression to arthritis.
The cost?
40$ a bottle and this crap autoships in 4 bottle incriments to 'keep you current' in the program... Who has 140$ for fruit juice? This thing reeks of scumm scammyness.
Any chance of cunsumerist posting something on this?
]]>And many people are liars.
]]>Direct Buy. Avoid. You pay thousands a year to join a club that lets you order overpriced merchandise from a catalog. Try Costco, BJ's, or Sam's club instead.
]]>@snoop-blog: I understand pushy salesmen. I was at Bloomingdale's, just looking ffs. Sales guy would not get off my ass, after multiple times of me telling him to fuck off (in tone, not literally). I ended up buying the shirt to end the cross-departmental haranguing and returned the polo shirt the next week. But then again, in my case, the worst case maybe I can't return it and I'd be out ~$60 for something that I could actually use-a nice shirt
]]>People, I don't think they had $7500 to "toss around". The $7500 wasn't due at the time they signed up for everything, and by the way I read it, they only signed up because they were "assured they could cancel within 3 days", which meant they had intention of canceling from the start. The sales people at these things are very pushy. Chances are, you didn't even want to listen to some pitch to get a free whatever but was talked into it by a pushy salesman. That's the equation for the salesman; find a customer that caves to pressure.
]]>I spend $7500 and get a coupon to Red lobster??? How about I cancel right now because you offered me a coupon to Red Lobster.
]]>@Coolmatt49: For older people, this mentality of trust no one is completely foreign to them. Additionally, what they were TOLD and what the legal speak written were two different things. Sounds like there was never a meeting of the minds and in that case the contract is null and void.
]]>If something is free, there's a catch. What should you do? Don't take it UNLESS you know what is attached to make it free and are willing to take that risk.
Short and simple, you will probably pay/give more than the value of something that's free.
DON'T sign for something unless you READ (not know) what you are signing for.
]]>I went to a presentation for a vacation club; they ask you how many vacations to you take, how much do you spend, they add it all up and say "spend 7500 now and you'll save lots more over the next (5,10,15) years!"
The one we went to only cost us $1100 bucks, promised plane ticket rebates, discounts on special travel weekends, etc. And the math worked out, ASSUMING:
1) you took all the trips you said you'd take and
2) they stay in business beyond 18 months.
Yes, they went out of business 18 months later. Or perhaps it was just 12 months. Either way, it was $1100 down the drain.
Since then I've instituted the "I don't spend over $500 on the spur of the moment without sleeping on it" policy that's saved me a couple of times since then.
]]>timeshares are awesome if you buy the right one.
seriously, i'm not sure how much my mom originally put down (cant be very much since when she bought it, she was a single mother of three with 2 full time jobs) but every year she renews her membership for about $500 and she gets a certain amount of points. this year i spent a week in vegas in a two bedroom, two bath, luxury unit with stove, full size fridge, all dishwear, etc. (this unit could have been priced easily at $900+ for the week)
my mom is planning a week trip somewhere around christmas.
every year you get this really thick catalog of all the places you can go. for the most part, you can pretty much go anywhere.
unfortunately it is a little more to go overseas, but that's something i think would be expected.
Right there you knew they were in trouble.
]]>Meanwhile, that's almost 9 months rent for me.
Sucks to be them, but we've all heard that statement about what happens to a fool and their money...
]]>The OP now knows not to trust people. They learned the hard way, as so many other people do. And we smile, laugh at their folly, and continue with our day, content to allow this sort of unethical business to pass without criticism?
]]>What the article fails to mention is the discount was for up to $10,000 off your next Red Lobster meal-they were actually quite savvy.
[end sarcasm subroutine]
Someone pointed out the scam was in Reader's Digest in the doctor's office waiting room. It's great the article was there - it's probably the only way to get the message to these old people.
]]>It sucks, but Caveat emptor
]]>$7500? What kind of savings could they possibly have been buying into? WTF do they vacation that would justify that kind of money? Maui? Montenegro? The French Alps?
]]>On this topic, why do people still fall for buying timeshares? I don't know anyone who has ever bought one and kept it for more than a few years or didn't feel ripped off.
]]>Never sign anything. Never.
]]>Anybody that's got $7,500 to toss around on such frivolous offers can surely afford the cost of this lesson anyway.
]]>Just saying ...
]]>I know were arent suppose to blame OP but they didnt read the contract plain and simple. Does it suck? Yes it sure does but who's fault is it?
If there was no signed paper contract then they should take them to small claims court. If there is one they should also send in said contract for all of us to read.
]]>BTW, how many people here have $7500 laying around in pocket cash to spend on a program to receive discounts on future travel and condo packages?
It is not just the amount of $, or the "travel" purpose of spending the $, but spending the $ just to receive a discount on travel. The OP must sure like to travel to justify $7500 expenditure so as to receive some discounts.
]]>I hate blaming the victim, but jeez, it's not like this is some new, elaborate scam. Putting 7500 down? WTF! "They were asked to sign a piece of paper after they received the card. The Liangs didn't think much about it."-and therein lies the problem
]]>@samurailynn: Because they were assured they could cancel within 3 days. That's why they signed up. I guess you could say the players got played. game, set, match!
]]>This is why you read the fine print. Personally I'd be pretty careful about joining some service with a $7500 entrance fee just for the purpose of getting or doing one thing, then canceling before that money is due. If the company knowingly allows this, I'd be expecting some sort of a catch along the way.
]]>@Git Em SteveDave is a poor substitute for LindsayJoy: or drunk. or stoned for that matter...
]]>Funny, just read the same type of scam in of all places a Reader's Digest at the Doctors office.
Going to these types of sales presentations is tantamount to dinner with the Devil. You think you go in with the upper hand, but the Devil knows your weaknesses, in this case dinner at Red Lobster.
]]>Thank you, I could not say it better.
]]>Meal at Red Lobster - Free
Trying to scam the scammers - $7500
Finding out you are an idiot - Priceless
@xwildebeestx: Not always. I sell cars, and granted there are hundreds of people that i remember faces and no names, there are quite a few that I remember every detail about, name, first and last, what they bought, what they put down, what they traded in... you get the idea. But a great salesperson is always thinking about the next sale and that is why most of their sales are nothing but numbers to them. Because it takes "x" amount of numbers to be sold, before you get to eat.
]]>Why did they even GO to the presentation? Let me guess, they were giving away "free" gifts, right?
I know I am preaching to the consumerist choir here--but for the love of God people, STOP GOING TO SALES PRESENTATIONS.
]]>If so... *hands JoeTan $20 ZWD*
]]>The thing that makes me blame the op the most is I've actually done these thing before (as the salesperson) and I can tell they felt pressure to sign and so instead of leaving, they wanted to PLEASE the salesperson so the were signing up with the intention of canceling, NEVER DO THIS!
If you know you are going to cancel, then don't sign up in the first place, or you'll just be dealing with a rude salesperson again days later, and once again they'll be putting the pressure on you and taking your cancelation personal.
]]>I can't feel bad for people who fall for scams that are 100+ years old. So stupid.
Oh wait! I got a great way to make money! Only $20 and I'll tell ya!
]]>Yup. They were too stupid to accept the Red Lobster card without reading the fine print. There was no scam here, just plain incompetence.
]]>Always read before signing anything,... that's rookies 101!
And anything that involves an hour's (or more) of a sales pitch is already not worth what they are asking, otherwise it wouldn't take an hour (or more) to talk you into it.
And the ole saying: "if it sounds too good to be true, IT IS!!!!!!!"