We've never seen any merchant try to interfere with consumers' rights on this level. So why would Luxury Car Tuning resort to such a bizarre statement? It could be because they've been burned by chargebacks before—banks tend to err on the side of consumers when a chargeback request is made, and merchants can and do lose their ability to accept credit cards if they exceed a certain number of chargebacks.
Having said that, we can't imagine how the company can enforce such a demand, but maybe the best thing to do is simply take your business elsewhere and avoid them altogether.
Here's the actual text, taken from their terms and conditions page:
Chargeback Abuse Policy
Purchases will appear on your credit/debit card statement as "Tuning Concept" or "Luxury Car Tuning". You agree not to file a credit card or debit card chargeback with regard to any purchase and instead abide by the dispute resolution procedures outlined below. In the event that you breach this agreement and file a chargeback, upon a resolution in our favor of the chargeback by either the credit card issuing bank, the credit card processor or by VISA or MASTERCARD, you agree to reimburse us for any costs incurred in researching and responding to such chargeback, including without limitation, our actual costs paid to the credit card processor or our banks, other third parties, and the reasonable value of the time of our employees and owners spent on the matter, as determined in our discretion in good faith. You further agree that all dispute resolution procedures below will be deemed waived by you, and that these amounts will be added to the original amount of the order, and that this total amount will then be immediately due and payable. If your chargeback is upheld, you agree to pay all of the same costs, in addition to the original purchase price, but we will use the dispute resolution procedures below to confirm and collect such amounts.
In the event that a chargeback is placed or threatened on a purchase, we also reserve the right to report the incident for inclusion in chargeback abuser database(s) of our choosing and in our sole discretion. The information reported will include name, email address, order date, order amount, IP address, full address, and phone number. Being listed on such databases may make it more difficult or even impossible for you to use (any of) your credit card(s) on future purchases with us or other merchants. Chargeback abusers wishing to be removed from the database shall make payment to us for any outstanding amount owed to us + $50 for processing and handling by wire transfer or such other means as we may require.
text]]>
There is a large thread on vwvortex forums about a beta test where certain things were promised and lct manipulated their wording to save money. Btw it seems like their product isn't very good either.
]]>A lot of scammers do this sort of thing. If they can just get people to delay chargebacks, they can continue the scam as deadlines pass for consumers. One example is HomeTownCandy.com, which appears to STILL be scamming people after years of this behavior. Check out their chargeback policy:
Should we wish to cancel your order for any reason, or require a refund, please email us at support@HometownCandy.com with the word CANCEL in the subject block. If your order has not yet shipped, we will cancel and refund your order promptly. If your order has shipped, then a refund will be issued after the package is returned to and received by us per the return policy set forth above. Chargebacks not preceded by a cancellation request email will be assessed an administrative fee of $25.
Since they just don't bother shipping orders, this makes it easy for them to continue the scam...
]]>@akede2001: You might want to verify that - we had a Visa card with exactly one transaction on it, and we disputed it (the company did not perform the service they charged us for) and were specifically told by the credit card company NOT to pay it until the dispute was finalized. They told us that paying it took away our rights to dispute. Paying off your credit card in full is a good thing for your finances, but it may remove your right to dispute a charge.
]]>Apparently No - somebody already picked up on this article:
specific quote:
VISA specifically prohibits these "no chargeback" policies" in its rules.
"No Chargeback" Sales Receipts Independent entrepreneurs have been selling sales-receipt stock bearing a statement near the signature area that the cardholder waives the right to charge the transaction back to the merchant. These receipts are being marketed to merchants with the claim that they can protect businesses against chargebacks; in fact, they do not. "No chargeback" sales receipts undermine the integrity of the Visa payment system and are prohibited."
]]>@B:
yep overpriced tuner mods that are desirable by stupid underage teens using mommies CC without her permission.
The type of business just smells of a high rate of chargebacks.
]]>I don't see how anyone who filed a chargeback against them previously would want their names removed from their list so that they could use their services AGAIN.
]]>This is somewhat off-topic, I understand, but has anyone looked at the website?
They have very few products listed, and most of them are "sold out", "backordered" or "hurry, only a few left". There are no pictures of any of the items that are listed. Everything just shows a box with the site's logo.
This looks to be a bunch of scumbag morons out for a very fast buck, and after that they'll be slipping away int the night. I seriously doubt anyone with sense would buy from this site to begin with. There's red flags all over the place with this site.
]]>That's the end of the story.
]]>You'd be surprised what companies forbid if you read the terms. Often there's also wording to try and stop you from publicizing bad service or a bad product.
Enforceable? Likely varies from state to state. Uncommon? Not at all.
]]>"My privacy policy bans me from disclosing customer information. Now what? Abusers are not customers, but criminals. "
It also compares it's service to hiring a lawyer in case of fraud in terms of disclosure (why not just take legal action, eh?) and suggests that a minimum level of protection for merchants is to collect as much personal information on each customer as possible to assess, by unclear means, their legitimacy.
]]>I don't regularly use credit cards so maybe I'm out the loop but are there consumers out there abusing chargebacks?
]]>Also, in a related matter, I bet someone at this crappy tuner shop is having a "bad case of the Mondays" right about now.
]]>And the reason VISA/Mastercard doesn't care about issuing a chargeback? Because the merchant eats the cost.. not your bank, not you, not VISA or Mastercard. If you are really due the money back, then chances are you will get it back.
]]>I'm not coming to the defense of the company in this case, but if you read the actual line in the contract it says: "You agree not to file a credit card or debit card chargeback with regard to any purchase and instead abide by the dispute resolution procedures outlined below." (Emphasis mine, of course)
They're not saying you don't have recourse, they are trying to lock you into their method of resolution dispute... which I really hope includes a joust or at least a hearty game of Rock, Paper, Scissors.
]]>So I'd sign it and if I needed to chargeback and they publish their information, I would figure that I could sue for slander.
But anyway, yeah. This isn't enforceable as I see it, but I'm not a lawyer.
]]>Whaaaaa?!!?
]]>"Being listed on such databases may make it more difficult or even impossible for you to use (any of) your credit card(s) on future purchases with us or other merchants."
Good. Makes it easier to avoid dumb merchants that employ these stupid, anti-consumer policies.
PS: How do you get the little "quote box" in a comment?
]]>Nevermind...didn't see that last part that they will still seek payment even if the chargeback is resolved in your favor. I guess they would have to use scamtastic binding arbitration, because somehow I don't think showing up in small claims court and saying "Bob ordered a cold air intake, we sold him a garden hose, he filed a chargeback which was upheld by the credit issuer, but we still think we should be paid the full value of the cold air intake plus fees, even though the record shows that we sent a garden hose."
They can eat a bag.
]]>Sounds to me like a company's way of covering up their sh***y accessories and customer service.
And since when is Jeep a luxury car?!
]]>This company is far from alone. Google the following:
"chargebask abuse" database
They're everywhere, and most of them use the exact same language.
]]>You further agree that all dispute resolution procedures below will be deemed waived by you, and that these amounts will be added to the original amount of the order, and that this total amount will then be immediately due and payable. If your chargeback is upheld, you agree to pay all of the same costs, in addition to the original purchase price, but we will use the dispute resolution procedures below to confirm and collect such amounts.]]>
The best part is where they charge you to be removed from the list - some of them go up to $1000.00, plus what ever amount you were contesting in the first place. And I'll bet you are removing only that merchants entry from reporting agency.
]]>@dcaslin: Sounds like extortion PLUS publishing your personally identifiable information on list declaring you to be a chargeback abuser without any reason to believe your chargeback was made in bad faith would probably set you up to hit them with a libel action, especially if you merely THREATENED a chargeback. This may also run afoul of privacy laws. They are really playing with fire with that statement.
However if you read carefully, the policy does say that they will backcharge you only if your chargeback is overturned, which I thought was fairly common practice anyway.
]]>I mean I like Lexus, I have a 97 ES300 and love the car. But let's be honest, its a pretty bland looking car, and no amount of accessories is going to make that thing look cool. Needless to say the moron looked incredibly stupid in his 'tricked out' Lexus.
]]>Heh, none of this matters. Your agreement for payment is with the credit card company, as it goes with the merchant.
In order to accept cards the merchant must agree to allow chargebacks - they can't make up arbitrary rules. Granted, I'm sure dealing with them will be fun, but Visa/MC would "take care of them" in a heartbeat.
(I work with e-commerce daily; we have seen many a merchant account terminated for such "policies".)
]]>Anybody that actually reads that clause in their agreement and actually goes forward with a CC purchase deserves what's coming to them. (No, I am not blaming the victim. they are not victims-YET). This outfit is telegraphing their customer service attitude loud and clear and you ignore it at your peril.
If this catches on, I will be doing a LOT less business.CC chargebacks are about the only thing standing between most consumers and total gang rape by companies.
]]>All they have to do is to meet up with one "bad" customer... my speculation is that sh*t probably won't fly in court if those guys actually mess up the job big time anyway.
]]>So, for argument's sake, I'll give them the benefit of the doubt for the rest of their contract. Now they're saying that if they identify you as a "chargeback abuser", someone we'll presume they believe is guilty of fraud, they'll still happily remove you from their list for $50 plus what you "stole"? Doesn't that remove any trace of legitimacy from their blacklist? Also, isn't it basically extortion?
]]>So, just do a chargeback for any 'fees' they assess you for the original chargeback. Rinse. Repeat.
]]>They waved a flag: dont shop here
]]>It's really hard to get to the point where you can no longer accept cards. They should know that both MC and Visa have a department called compliance that does nothing but levey fines against companies.
Also that's why they probably dont take Amex, they're tought on merhcants but fair, if a merchant has done there job, they should be clear.
]]>It's pretty unlikely that I'm ever going to need the services of this merchant (especially after reading this), but you can be sure I'm going to be looking for the same type of verbage in the boiler-plate for other sites.
Once one sleazebag merchant starts with something like this, you can bet a whole bunch of others will jump on that particular bandwagon...
]]>