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Why would any woman put herself through that?
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Call me a jerk for thinking this, but could you imagine any guy, meeting some nice lady, getting naked, engaging in a couple hours of foreplay (rar!) then saying, \"Sorry, it doesn't look perky enough. OUT!\"
Yeah, me neither. Guys are pigs.
If this does become a trend, I'm concerned. Because sooner or later, you know women are going to start demanding \"cuter\" Mr. Happys. (Oh gawd, what would make a Mr Happy cuter: ladies?! Gents?!)
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Man, I too have so many jokes....
But in all honesty, think about how many botched implants there are....
In some asian countries, men get little inert plastic balls inserted under the skin of their penis, making it a permanent \"french tickler.\" Makes me shudder to think about it.
Still, if I was going to have schlong work done, I'd want antlers.
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You know, despite the terabytes of porn I've downloaded over the years, I haven't seen enough live ones to know what an ideal vagina is supposed to look like. I'm just happy to enjoy their company - it's usually too dark to see anyway (the room, not the vagina).
So no, vaginal surgeries - not worth it.
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Wow... I mean, the jokes, but... wow...
@cac67: OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWWWWWW!
This is what happens when the idle-rich run out of things to spend money on - someone creates something extraordinarily stupid for them. The circle of useless continues.
Reminds me of the series Jezebel did on this subject, wherein one editor interviewed someone from the porn industry. The guy described what he saw as the four different types of vag, and each description included \"and I think that's pretty awesome.\"
You'd think that if any group of people would be obsessive about vaginal aesthetics, it'd be pornographers, but I guess they understand the central truth of their industry: anything is marketable. No matter what a woman looks like, there's almost certainly someone out there who thinks that's the hottest thing ever.
hey! Whatever makes you & your man happy!...
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The next time some guy refers to a woman's goodies as a \"Big Montana\" I may vomit.
If I must explain what a Big Montana is, you've never been to Arby's... If you know what it is I dare you to eat a Big Montana now... you'll never look at that poor sandwich the same.
I say whatever... as long as it's not green. /gross-out
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I have never seen a coochie and wished it was a Gucci. No designer labias for me!
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I heard a radio interview with a vaginal reconstructive surgeon recently. She said that a lot of patients get these surgeries because of damage sustained after multiple childbirths. The vagina can become torn and the tissue may never properly repair. The muscles inside the vagina can get badly damaged. As a result, as women age, the possibility of things sagging, drooping, falling apart or (shudder) prolapsing (falling out, so to speak) greatly increase. Sometimes these surgeries are necessary.
Yeah, seriously, what does the \"ideal\" vagina look like?
Needs a better name than labioplasty. Nobody says rhinoplasty, they say nose job.
A cooter job?
cootch repair?
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there is no way in HELL that i'm letting anyone come near me \"down there\" with a knife unless it's absolutely necessary. scary.
If we can give little baby boys cosmetic surgery (otherwise known as circumcision) why not let the ladies have theirs. At least they get a choice in the matter!
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@cac67: I think you're thinking of this:
\"Yakuza in prison sometime perform pearlings: for each year spent in prison one pearl is inserted under the skin of the penis.\"
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Labia-mania.
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From the first article:
\"I don't know what the G-spot is,\" said Dr. Melvin Gerbie, chief of gynecology at Northwestern Memorial Hospital.
Poor Mrs. Gerbie...
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Oddly enough, I know some female OBGYN's who have had this surgery performed. *YIKES*
Disclaimer: I'm a man, and I don't see a good reason to get surgeries like this. It's not a big deal to guys. I speak for myself, so I'm sure there are some guys out there for which it would be a big deal, but whatever. That's MY take.
Regardless of that, it seems as though these professional organizations are glossing over the fact that this is COSMETIC surgery. To wit:
\"I know of no medical reason to do these surgeries and no scientific data that proves they are beneficial,\" said Dr. Thomas E. Nolan, president-elect of the Society of Gynecologic Surgeons.
Ok... what is a \"medical\" or \"scientifically beneficial\" reason for breast implants? (Note: I'm not a fan of those either.)
I had to roll my eyes at that Dr. Gerbie guy too... how out of touch are these people?
I read this story here yesterday, I'm sure of it. This morning I come back and it seems to be more recent than the \"Morning Deals\" post. Odd. Almost as if it was purposely moved to attract more attention?
I think the question to look into is whether there is any possible medical HARM derived from these vag-surgeries. We know of the risks of breast augmentation, and yet women still get implants. So far, it sounds to me like these doctors are harping on what is just another form of cosmetic surgery.
Unless you're a hooker and a lot of people are going to be seeing your vagina, I don't really see the point of this.
Not that I am a fan of cosmetic surgery- Sardonicbastard--but sometimes breast cancer takes the breasts..many women find it difficult to heal without this surgery...I dont think these are the folks with the E size cups though..just a reconstruction of what they lost...
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@bluegus32: The only thing scarier than reading about this surgery is reading the good reason you gave to have it done. Falling apart or falling out? Why doesn't anybody ever tell you this stuff?!?!
Or do they? Do OB-GYNs tell you this when you tell them you're trying to get pregnant?
@hc5duke:
\"Yakuza in prison sometime perform pearlings: for each year spent in prison one pearl is inserted under the skin of the penis.\"
The plastic beads that cac67 is referring to is not the Yakuza ritual. Some Asian men place many plastic beads under the skin of their johnson to add girth and provide pleasure for their partners during intercourse. I assume it is an attempt to copy the design of certain battery operated plastic adult toys such as the \"Jackrabbit\" (google it).
Funny thing is, this topic came up in the new Showtime series Californication. David Duchovny meets an attractive woman, and she asks his opinion of her lips. Thinking Botox or collagen, he begins his inspection, only to have her interrupt him with 'Not those lips'.
It turns out she was a porn star, with a child and was serious about the surgery to enhance her career...
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I just don't get it. Women do not need to do this to impress guys. We are very much a function over form crowd. Barring valid medical reasons or like acid damage or burns this is just pointless.
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There are a lot of surgical procedures that the physician organizations within the United States do not approve or condone. Does this make them bad? I think not.
In short, I am sure there are legitimate medical reasons (both physical and mental) to why these types of surgical procedures occur. There are also a lot of people who obsess about appearance. The bottom line is, if someone is willing to go through this, then let them.
If a man leaves a woman because they had children and the pleasure from intercourse is no longer what he wants then he's a jackass. A better method of dealing with the issue would be investigating other sexual techniques that might increase the pleasure levels of sex, not necessarily intercourse.
@LTS!: Also, while the labia will never ever ever ever ever be the same, kegel exercises can make up for some of the lost tightness, no?
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I looked at some of the pictures on one of the Drs. websites that do these types of surgeries. All the after shots look the same - like porn mag vaginas (and also kinda like those fake vaginas - too perfect). Other than for an actual medical reason, this is just yet another plastic surgery induced \"need\" to fix women. For the most part I'm all for doing what ever you want to do to your body as long as you're not hurting anyone. However, it is really sad to think that there are women out there who are so unhappy with their bodies that they're changing something that few people see and those people who do get to see it usually don't care what it looks like.
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Let me say, in all seriousness... eww eww ewww eww ewww. That particular spot is the LAST place anyone should be cavalierly carving up to suit some dickhead's idea of what it SHOULD look like. It's repulsive that someone has such a low opinion of themselves that they think this is okay. Same with breast work. I think CEEJEEMCBEEGEE said all there is to say on the matter....
\"If he's complaining, he don't need to be hittin' it.\"
Sorry to nitpick, but if we're talking labioplasty, then we're not talking \"vaginal surgery.\" \"Vulva\" and \"vagina\" are not interchangeable terms.
That's about my biggest pet peev of all time.
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Being a male, I'm often left in disbelief at the lengths some women will go. I do have to say though, that often times this has nothing to do with a guy complaining or suggesting that anything needs to change. There seem to be a great amount of women who would do this (or whatever other less extreme example) regardless of what the men in their life are telling them. So let's not pretend that the only reason this would happen is because some guy complained about it…
There is no body part that can't be obsessed over and/or compared unfavorably with someone else's; I dated someone once who fretted that her toes were too long, and wasn't reassured when I told her that that was one of the things that made her unique. I suspect that the ready availability of porn on the net, and in particular extreme closeups of hoo-hahs, has led some women to compare their equipment to that of other ladies, without the context of knowing that most men (and, I'm glad to see, most of the commenters) think that they're all pretty awesome.
i'm not a woman but in an extreme sort of way it reminds me of what a female friend of mine once told me about women and panties.
She said, she bought expensive bra/panty sets to wear for her own benefit even though she wasn't married or sexually active with anyone at the time.
She said it made her feel better even though no one else would know anything about it.
I think the same or similar idea may be true for women that would do this. It is mostly hidden except for their sexual partners and OB doctors. Assuming a woman isn't in the adult entertainment industry and has a monogamous relationship she will only really be showing it to one person...if that.
Truely there is some amount of lack of self-importance and acceptance in these cases of cosmetic-only procedures
I got lasik done b/c i couldn't see, but there was even an element of cosmetic self-consciousness involved b/c i didn't like the way i looked in glasses.
I think vag augmentation is just an extreme for of this that people find a way to justify.
I first heard about this on Loveline. Dr. Drew had been an observer on several \"Vaginal makovers\" He mentioned that many of them were women who had multiple children and had suffered vaginal colapse resulting in pain, lost sensation, and orgasmic incontenance.
I also saw a segment on some plastic surgery show where a young woman had a 2\" by 2\" peice of labial tissue removed because it would get pulled inside during sex causing a lot of pain.
I kinda wonder if most cases are like what I saw, or if it's the new boob job.
I think we need to create a world world ALL vaginas are loved and cared for, not just the pretty ones. The pink lettuce, the chewed bubblegum and yes, even the Fidel Castro eating a london broil should all be equally honored and respected.
Seriously, any dude that passes judgment on what a vulva/vagina/whatever doesn't deserve to be in the company of one. If it's not blatantly obvious now that we need to really start impressing upon little girls that they're beautiful regardless of what people think then it never will be.
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@JayP71: \"Barring valid medical reasons or like acid damage or burns this is just pointless.\"
Acid damage? Burns? WTF is going on over at your place? :)
Jerkosaurus:
Next time someone asks me what my biggest pet peeve is, I'm afraid I'm going to have to steal yours.
Hope you don't mind.
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@bluegus32: \"She said that a lot of patients get these surgeries because of damage sustained after multiple childbirths.\"
Unfortunately, the vast majority of these types of surgeries aren't performed for serious medical problems resulting from childbirth: They're performed to \"correct\" the stretching of the vaginal that naturally results from PUSHING A CANTELOUPE-SIZED BABY HEAD OUT OF IT.
At the end of the Chicago Tribune article they had a woman whose husband stopped having sex with her after child #2 (I think she was a nurse) because she was \"too loose\" and eventually divorced her and then she got her vag tightened back up.
We don't need vaginally surgery to correct that problem: we need marital firing squads that hold jackass husbands to account. \"Well, your honor, I spent 18 months pregnant so he could propagate his genetic material, and 32 hours in labor, and pushed two giant baby heads out my vagina, and gained and lost baby weight twice, and took horse-pill-sized prenatal vitamins, and was constipated for nearly a year straight, and had two episiotomies, and have stretch marks all over my belly and thighs, and now he wants to divorce me because my vagina is stretchy.\" \"Yes, you're right, I do believe a firing squad is the proper answer.\"
I highly doubt that men are driving the demand for this procedure. I can't imagine a man saying to his girlfriend/wife \"you need to have this done. I'm not satisfied with your vagina.\" This is, I suspect, driven largely by the fashion industry which is dominated by female influence.
I a chick's got the WIzard's Sleeves going on down there, she's got a right to get 'em lopped.
What do you expect? Women have outlandishly paranoid body-image issues.
@OKH: let's try to wrap this all too sensitive(pun intended) and personal subject in the context of a consumer issue...
From wikipedia
\"A commodity is something for which there is demand, but which is supplied without qualitative differentiation across a given market.\"
Despite the remaining vast amounts of internet geeks still seeking the elusive vagina, in today's world it is much easier to get than ever before. Thus it has become a commodity to a certain extent.
So the same question comes up for a corporation in the commodity business and for the woman who is trying to set herself apart and to become a unique entity...How do suppliers of commodities differentiate themselves?
In a commodity market, price falls and becomes relatively uniform. Barriers to entry into the market are also eliminated or reduced.
Take the case of a copper plumbing fitting. It is the same exact part from one OEM to another. The object here is to reduce production cost/unit and charge as much as possible without losing business to a competitor doing the exact same thing. It is a bit of a cat and mouse game. All the while you have the outside influence of the raw cost of materials, copper in this scenario, that is used in so many other products. Customer service is a key driver. This includes product availability, service before and after the sale.
Back to the vagina side of things. Sex is much more an open part of society now. The barriers to entry for people(men and women, these days) to have access are decreasing. Less people are monogamous than ever before. That puts a lot of whoopie on the market. That drives down cost and forces providers to differentiate themselves.
Differentiation in the sex \"market\" throughout history has been based on certain elements of physical beauty. The Barbie generation look-alikes has taken differentiation to a point where ironically in the end are less differentiated b/c they all look so much the same/similar.
So now, in this vastly competitive market of boob jobs, lypo, face lifts, botox, anal bleaching, this Labiaplasty is just the next new thing to try to be different.
Not to mention the outside competition of porn, prostitution, and other forms of paid adult entertainment. Anyone trying to live up to or compete in this market is in a losing battle. The \"average\" woman trying to find herself worth in anything other than a true loving relationship without qualifications will be searching without reward.
It's a vicious cycle to be sure. It is self cannibalizing. Luckily women are a renewable resource. Though as any renewable resource goes, it should still used with a bit of restraint. Remember the three R's of conservation. Reduce, Reuse, Recycle!
Sorry this got so long.
@Smoking Pope: i was thinking the same thing... that give a whole new meaning to P.Hilton's tag line \"That's HOT\"
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I think we're all in agreement that there are no bad vaginas, just varying levels of greatness.
That being said, I do think there is an \"ideal look\". I think of it like Steak... All steak is delicious (sorry vegitarians), but there is a quality difference between skirt steak (great in fajitas), and a New York Strip. Now, I don't condone trying to alter your skirt steak to like like a filet, because everyone knows its just a wolf in sheep's clothing.
So, in breif, ladies, they are all great for their differences, and any guy should be lucky to be in its presence, but there is a scale on which they can be judged in terms of conforming to an \"ideal\". That scale may vary depending on the guy/girl's version of ideal, but it exists.
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I've always been a \"function over form\" kinda guy, so unless there are improvements in performance, I'm not interested.
@Eyebrows McGee: I second that!
let's try to wrap this all too sensitive(pun intended) and personal subject in the context of a consumer issue...
@gibsonic: Just it being a type of surgery being offered by doctors makes it consumer issue, doesn't it?
i suppose it does. i guess in my mind i still have a hard time making myself think of shopping for a doctor or medical procedure the same as shopping for a new LCD TV.
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I hate you. It has been years since I have been able to eat at Arby's...And unless I forget this, I will never be able to do so again.
But, to get back on topic. Not all are created equal, but it's the one part where a the difference between a \"bad\" one and a \"good\" one are pretty marginal.
Being able to offer surgery to correct disfigurations is one of the big pluses about this country and it should be praised for it. Unfortunately, the money grabbing abusers of society take it to the next level and offer it in the name of vanity, and to hell with the consequences.
I'm surprised that this post isn't accompanied by a photo of a Georgia O'Keeffe painting.
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@formergr: \"Yeah, seriously, what does the \"ideal\" vagina look like?\"
I'm thinking of a variation on the old Charlie Papazian quote: \"The best beer in the world is the one in your hand.\"
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@OKH: That's the best thing I ever heard! I'll never again be able to see Castro or eat a london broil without thinking of vaginal rejuvination. My hat is off to you, sir.
@Eyebrows McGee: Wait just a second. If the vagina walls have been badly damaged as a result of a \"cantaloupe-sized\" baby head out of it (as you so eloquently put) why is it then unreasonable for someone to want that repaired? If that damage results in the breakdown of sexual relations, then there is going to be a concomitant breakdown in marital relations in general. An integral part of marriage is sexual relations. If you cannot have sex because of significant damage to your sexual organs, then your marriage is likely to suffer as a result. That is simply a reality of life. I'm sorry if you don't like it.
Many very-well respected psychologists have opined that when sex is not a problem, then it accounts for 10% of a relationship. However, when sex is a problem, then it accounts for 90% of a relationship. When one partner is sexually dis-satisfied then marital problems are virtually a guarantee. Call me shallow if you like but this is simply a reality.
But just so I'm clear -- are you for or against people having this surgery? Sounds like you're against it for the sole reason that you think that men should not be sexually oriented. If that's the case, then you're asking for something that is simply not realistic.
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@acambras: You're post is the best one on here.
But seriously. If theres something seriously wrong in there, fine. But for all cosmetic reasons, no way. Our society is sick enough as it is. We don't need people throwing up, getting fake tits AND cutting up their coochies.
There's a place in AZ that offers \"Aussie Makeovers,\" for your \"down undah\" (always said in an Australian accent). I thikn that's the best marketing ever.
While I would never do this, I can understand how some women would want it for their own reasons. But, hell, I have a friend who decided to get himself circumcized at age 13, so you never know what people are thinking when it comes to their own genitals.
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Why are we not talking about whether penises and balls are pretty? Now that's an area that could use a facelift - all wrinkly, such as.
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Yes, we stupid women need men telling us what our reasons for vaginal surgery are, and why they're stupid.
No one would treat men's stupid surgeries this way.
@bluegus32: \"If you cannot have sex because of significant damage to your sexual organs, then your marriage is likely to suffer as a result.\"
They CAN have sex. They have husbands who object to the fact that after multiple childbirths, they're not as tight as a 17-year-old virgin any longer. It's not \"badly damaged.\" It's a normal physiological change after childbirth. The surgery is frequently presented as solving all these horrific problems, which truly are horrific, but which are the VAST MINORITY of the surgeries. True sexual dysfunction as a result of childbirth is rare.
What we're talking about is men who, after childbirth, object to the changes in their wives' bodies and pressure the women into painful, dangerous, and unnecessary plastic surgery. If a \"tight fit\" is their sole criterion for a successful marriage and sex life, why aren't they out getting their penises pumped full of silicon and whatnot to increase length and girth?
If you're not willing to put up with the fact that your wife's body will be different after pregnancy, don't knock her up, asshole!
@bluegus32: \"When one partner is sexually dis-satisfied then marital problems are virtually a guarantee. Call me shallow\"
PS -- it IS shallow, pathologically so, if the sexual \"dissatisfaction\" is based on an unrealistically idealized vision of the female body. Individuals who are incapable of having sexual relationships with real people who have real bodies are the sexually dysfunctional ones, and no amount of surgery will solve that problem, because the problem is psychological, whether it manifests itself as porn addiction, repeated demands for a partner to have body modifications done, or just a constant string of verbal abuse about what's wrong with the partner's body.
If we are talking about a genuine problem that prevents a normal, healthy sex life, that's different. But most of the time, with these surgeries, we are NOT. Had you read my original post carefully, you would see that what I objected to was the majority of these surgeries which are performed to \"correct\" something that is NORMAL.
The vast majority of couples continue to have very satisfying sex lives after childbirth, without any medical intervention, even if the vagina's a little looser than it used to be.
@Eyebrows McGee: whoa whoa whoa! What's with all the hostility? You know, I think the problem here lies in the apparent fact that you are assuming too much. For some reason, you are assuming that it is men who are pressuring their wives into getting this done out of some sort of selfish need. You then concede \"if we are talking about a genuine problem that prevents a normal, healthy sex life, that's different.\" Ok, see, that is precisely what I was talking about.
In fact, if you read the Chicago Tribune article carefully you see that the nurse of whom you speak made ZERO mention of her husband pressuring her. \"I was huge [meaning her vagina] and sex wasn't as pleasurable for my husband or for me.\" (emphasis added) She got the surgery to correct her own problems that were even affecting her own enjoyment. The procedure \"helped me immensely. I feel everything, and I feel normal again.\" There's nothing in there about her husband wanting a 17 year old sex goddess.
Indeed, if you read both the Chicago Tribune article and the Newsweek article you will see that all of the reasons given for the surgery come from women either for functional reasons or cosmetic. But nowhere does either article mention anything about this being men's fault.
Seems to me that your extrapolating out a little too much here. I was talking about the possibly functional need to repair damage to a body part and you turned this into a let's hate men session. Totally unacceptable.
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\"Last week the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists (ACOG) Committee on Gynecologic Practice issued a statement to its members warning about the dangers of trying to create \"designer vaginas\" through procedures that purport to trim and slim the vaginal lips, tighten the vagina or add extra bounce to the G-spot with injectable materials like collagen.\"
Well, Wal-Mart did say that they were going \"designer\" in a bid to attract a more upscale kind of customer. Seriously though, no greater testament could be given as to the stranglehold that PORN has over American society than the prevalence of these surgeries.
\"Not so long ago, the main clientele for cosmetic vaginal procedures was sex workers and nude entertainers, but with the increasing popularity of bikini waxes, women have become more aware of the appearance of their vaginas, and a growing number seem to feel they don't measure up.\"
So much for not having anything in common with primitive arab tribes who forcibly mutilate the genitals of their women.
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I like my roast beef rare, with a side of horseraddish, thankyouverymuch
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@ Eyebrows McGee: marital firing squad? I'm all for it!
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I'm probably not the only one thinking that maybe just a little grounds-keeping is all that's needed instead of full-on landscaping. We all like a tidy playground don't we? ;)
The warning was more directed at vaginal surgery actually. The biggest problem in this patient population is approaching a surgeon without a clear idea of what can be done and what the risks are. The Committee is correct in saying that there are few published data on many of these procedures such as G spot amplification. Labiaplasty, specifically reduction labiaplasty, can be quite safe when attention is paid to technique and goals are reasonable. I have performed this procedure for the past 8 years with few problems and many happy patients.
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If he's complaining, he don't need to be hittin' it.