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Uh-oh, the AT&T lawyers are going to like this.
Uh-oh, the AT&T lawyers are going to like this.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-130285-100x100.png\")
@HAWK07
Just threaten to call the BBB or FCC and those lawyers will back off!
Yeah, this is going to be down in a bit, I'm pretty sure. Privileged information, or something along those lines.
Oh well, it was a fun read, though.
I can hear it now... \"Yeah so what if I am an 'LTV1', I want ____ now!\" I like stuff like this, I wish there was one for Sprint.
As current AT&T wireless customer with cingular/at&t I must say we are constantly screwed over.
@Amy A - I'm assuming you don't use the t68i any more . . . I got the \"upgrade\" way back in the day (free phone if you returned the t68) - so I'm not sure how/why you would say they never replaced it?
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1735-100x100.png\")
It would be fun to have a contest where you invite CSRs to leak their manuals.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-129981-100x100.png\")
Excellent post. This is exactly the reason why I love the consumerist.
I don't know how likely this is to go down. Dell tried that after all. And as was rightly pointed out, the employee who leaked this could be punished for violating their agreements with the company, but Consumerist has no such obligations.
I guess I lucked out. I got married last week, and added my wife to my family plan. I called AT&Tingular, and they set things up without a hitch.
The extra attention might be because I'm on a corporate plan, though.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-6173-100x100.png\")
Boy, nowhere on that list do I see, \"Accuse the customer of being a liar and suggest she must be illiterate,\" which is what happened last time *I* had to deal with AT&T customer service.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-44658-100x100.png\")
It is always interesting to take a look 'inside' a company at some manual that they don't want you to see. Here is an interesting document from Target Corporation FYI:
www.targetfiling.blogspot.com
or
[groups.msn.com]
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-2128-100x100.png\")
Is that picture from the old Southwestern Bell building in Houston?
Sprint has a $ meter, $, $$, $$$, $$$$ and $$$$$ I bet you can guess which ones men the most profitablity. I've got a $ account, with 10 lines, and pay less than $200 every month. All text and internet is free, and about 45% discount every month between loyality & corporate discount
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-70730-100x100.png\")
CTRL+P, yah know...just in case :)
@Sidecutter: I leaked Sprint internal PDF's having never worked for the company, and their legal department STILL tried to sue me for having it on my website!
Place your bets:
What time/day will AT&T demand that Consumerist.com remove this post.
I call AT&T/Cingular corporate support at least once a day at work. We have a non-standard contract with the company. Most of the reps try to enforce standard procedure, and balk if we mention that standard procedure goes against our contract. Asking for a manager usually nets us 5 minutes of hold time and the correct answer.
Needless to say, I'm saving this page and distributing it to all of my coworkers.
Sorry but is it just me or is it creepy that the AT&T building is a giant block of concrete with no windows? I imagine the employees inside are just bubbling with joy.
For those who want a peek at Target's Policies:
=====================================
From: www.targetfiling.blogspot.com
or
[www.sitemeter.com]
--------------------------
C. Five Steps for Apprehension
Certified AP team members must observe all five steps prior to making a shoplifter apprehension.
NOTE: If local law enforcement takes independent action and makes an apprehension before all five steps are met, the details must be documented in the CIRS report.
1. Initiation of Observation - The subject must enter the store/area without possession of Target merchandise.
2. Selection - The subject must be observed selecting Target merchandise from the display location.
3. Concealment - The subject must be observed concealing the merchandise, or the AP team member must have NO reasonable doubt based on observations that the merchandise has been concealed by the subject.
NOTE: If the merchandise is not actually concealed, it must be exposed as the subject exits or attempts to exit the store.
4. Maintain Observation - The AP team member must maintain sufficient surveillance of the subject in order to know the location of the merchandise and ensure the subject does not discard the merchandise.
NOTE: A Productive Merchandise Recovery (PMR) shall be attempted if surveillance is broken for any reason, or the AP team member can not maintain sufficient surveillance. (See PMR Directive).
5. Failure to Pay for Merchandise/Exiting the Store -AP team member(s) must observe the subject attempt to exit the store without paying for the merchandise.
NOTE: Some jurisdictions allow variances from the exiting requirement to allow apprehensions of concealed merchandise before an individual reaches the building's exit. In these cases, the requirements must be documented and approved by the Director or Vice President of Assets Protection using the \"Variance from Exiting Form\" (found on the AP Zone).
-----------------
D. Restroom / Fitting Room Apprehensions
AP team members are not allowed to conduct surveillance or make apprehensions in restroom and/or fitting rooms.
1. AP team members are not allowed to follow subject's into a restroom or fitting room to conduct surveillance.
2. AP team members shall not ask another team member to enter a fitting room or restroom to conduct surveillance.
---------------
B. Searches of Private Residence or Motor Vehicles
1. AP team members will NOT participate in a search of a private residence or motor vehicle.
--------------
1. Fleeing Shoplifter
a. If a shoplifter attempts to flee after being confronted, do not give chase in any manner (running, driving, etc.).
b. Store based AP team members shall not use any vehicle to follow or pursue a subject for any reason.
c. AP team members shall not encourage, condone, suggest or ask another Target team member or anyone else to chase a fleeing shoplifter.
----------------
2. AP shall refer for prosecution all individuals apprehended for retail theft when the value of the merchandise is $20.00 or greater and the case meets local prosecution requirements.
NOTE: If a case meets/exceeds the $20.00 referral guideline, but is NOT referred, the reason for non-referral must be included in the CIRS narrative. (Example: Local jurisdiction limits require merchandise in excess of $75.00 in order for prosecution.)
3. A team member witness, of the same gender of the suspected shoplifter , must be present in the room at all times during the detention.
--------------
A. Photographing Shoplifters
1. Adult shoplifters - AP shall photograph all adult shoplifters unless prohibited by local statutes or ordinances.
2. Team Member Shoplifters - AP will not photograph any team member apprehended for shoplifting during working or non-working hours.
3. Juvenile Shoplifters - AP will not photograph any juveniles apprehended for shoplifting, unless required by local statutes or ordinances.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-58947-100x100.png\")
I wish wireless would work like credit cards - earn interest on airtime you don't use, or get refunded.
@beyond:
They would hate it, if there were any employees inside. The building is a central office - just lots of wires, a few switches and (thanks to technology improvments) a lot of empty space, since the new gear takes up a lot less room than the older gear - no people (maybe 1 or 2 occasionally to do maintenance, but that's it).
This was a very interesting read. I see that they mention that a lot of this stuff doesn't apply to \"Former AT&T customers\". I think am one of these former AT&T customers (I am assuming this means the pre-Cingular AT&T Wireless) and I am wondering how we are viewed upon in their standard procedures. Did anyone see anything specific about this?
Again, thanks. This was great.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-144228-100x100.png\")
I do believe that there is a whole other policy for handling former AT&T Wireless customers and their complaints. But that's another article down the road.
Wow. From what I was able to read it sounds like they don't care about former AT&T customers...but I wonder which iteration of former AT&T they mean because haven't AT&T and Cingular merged and changed names and gone back like twice or three times now?
On top of that it seems like if you're caling to complain or threaten to cancel, they're not going to attempt to retain anyone anyway, that is of course you meet their criteria for long term value (LTV). My interpretation of that (which is probably wrong) is that you have to have an expensive plan, hardly use any airtime, and you don't roam.
After searching through, the only thing I found about former AT&T customers was this (under \"Retention Procedures):
* Follow normal save procedures for Former AT&T Wireless customers.
So maybe we are still okay.
what i love most about this article is the photograph, which clearly shows that AT&T filled the windows of an old Sheraton with concrete. I love the warm, inviting facade!
Old Sheraton?
Oh by the way I work landline retentions so if you have any questions I'd be happy to answer them.
pssst, attslave...(you can see the old Sheraton logo on the building...and all of the filled windows)
href=\"#c2138560\">ATTSlave:
Exactly, the building used to have a Bell system logo on it, so it's been around for a while (most of the CO's have).
you are probably right. i see that now. let's just pretend its a sheraton logo. no matter which you see, it's still a portrait of satan!
I hear all the time that att Is crappy. But I know the CEO's email address so I just let him help me with my problems. Prompt responds by people empowered to fix things.
They have been great to me :)
I don't really see any smoking guns here. They repeat over and over Emphasize, listen, review, attempt to resolve the problem, escalate, etc. Sounds like that's what we would want them to do. Of course putting this on paper doesn't mean they do a good job of getting their CSR's to actually act accordingly.
I can't find a huge fault in them not wanting to make concessions to try and retain non-profitable customers either. They seem to mention only 5% of their customers fit the LTV1 profile. They don't say throw them out (like Sprint seems to), rather it's: just don't go out of your way to save them. We could argue that today's non-profitable customer is tomorrow's profitable one, but they may have experience that shows otherwise. In any event their policy seems reasonable. Too bad we hear so many times that their employees aren't following this policy!
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-24726-100x100.png\")
While I don't take any responsibility for your doing so, it might not be a bad idea for someone to copy and paste this article before The Consumerist is forced to remove it. :)
@whydidnt: Too bad we hear so many times that their employees aren't following this policy!
Did you notice how freaking long that thing is? They're probably starting to read it and giving up.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-128794-100x100.png\")
@cac67:
you are completely right, I work there and sometimes i attempt to read the standard procedures, but i just give up and end up giving wahtever customer credit..... well within reason.
I'm pretty sure \"Former AT&T Customers\" means TDMA which costs them a lot. They want to shutdown the TDMA network. They won't let new people subscribe to it, so they're to get that number down to zero. They aren't considered LTV1. AT&T rather have them as LTV1
sheeeeeeeeeeeesh
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-1961-100x100.png\")
I'm pretty sure I was a LTV1 customer. I was a former ATT Wireless customer (GSM) and when I called them in May of '06 to see if they could match an offer from T-Mobile, they were only willing to knock $10 off the regular price for a phone, despite the fact I was willing to spend an extra $240 over the life of a new contract. So I switched and I haven't missed them.
![\"user-pic\"](\"/mt-static/support/assets_c/userpics/userpic-22614-100x100.png\")
@BELBIVDEVOLKSWAGEN:
Yes, that's the SBC/ATT central office in Houston.
see: [www.flickr.com] for the latest set of pictures I took of it.
having formerly worked csr, here is some tips for all you people calling in. First is to know your own phone number/account number/order number depending on the issue, you would not believe the amount of people who do not know basics about a service they are spending hundreds of dollars on. Also if your having a tech issue do not call from the cell phone your having the issue with then get mad when the rep can not fix it, again alot is of this just common sense.You will get a call back on any phone numbers they have on record so if you get a message on home phone it is because the call to your cell did not go through to the poster above. If you get a rep that seems to not care it is because for every polite well informed caller you get literally get 60 plus calls a day from people trying to scam credits for vaild charges or just calls from people yelling because they did not take the time to look at what they were signing up for. it is hard when you first start taking calls to seperate the scammers from the legit requests for adjustments. I agree service can be terrible but if you know your own service and are to the point with the issue you call in about , you will get better service, calling up and making threats/yelling/ranting for 10 mins about being on hold/etc. well get you nowhere cs reps will tune you out if you do this, stick to your issue because it will save your time. i could write a book on this so i'll stop here.
I guarantee that no one out of training has ever looked at this document again, except in the case of LTV1 customers, which are very rare (in my experience, at least).
Also, escalating above a supervisor will never get you a callback within 2 hrs. The timeframe is -72- hours.
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-145940-100x100.png\")
I would simply love to know if I can call AT&T now and ask \"What level of customer am I?\". It would be really interesting to see how they rank me in the system (information I'm sure they don't want to give up anytime soon. Like the example they give, I *have* been a customer for 10 years but rarely ever call customer service and its been 5 years since the last time I was late on a payment. We will see if they decide to change any of their policies after this document (albeit old) being leaked.
I can't tell you how many times I called to get promotional stuff they offer to customers and have them tell me it CANT be done. Now I know its how you ask for it I can be that special level of customer that gets the respect he deserves. I'm not saying I call them all the time but there was a point where I was presented a GREAT offer to switch and asked them to make it worth my while to stay as I have been a customer since 1997.
i was 10 months into a 2 year contract w/Cingular and I got out of it a few weeks ago with no problems whatsoever. How? By telling them I moved and have zero service in and around my new home. They waived the ETF and kept the account active long enough for me to port my number to the new company.
I doubt I was LTV1 though, I paid $45/mo for 1 line and always paid on time. meh.
I was definitely LTV1. After getting tired of literally getting into near-screaming matches every time I called Cingular CSRs (and no, I am not an out of control \"don't you know who you're dealing with\" type. The screaming inevitably started on THEIR side--when online bill payments weren't being credited to my account on time and I was being charged late fees despite their records showing what date I was supposed to be charged, etc, I got an attitude of \"Didn't anyone ever tell you to pay your bills on time?\", etc, etc) I finally decided to leave after they lied to me about an upgraded phone's capabilities (I agreed to a 1 year renewal for a 'world-phone' and then discovered it wasn't really universal. I only had renewed as I was leaving on a vacation in a couple of months and thought it'd be nice to have a phone). I called to complain and said I wanted a truly global-capable phone, and basically was told I was crazy and all they could do was refuse the phone delivery and they'd put me back on my old plan which I could cancel and get out of. (no effort made to save me) So I switched to Verizon (who I have had absolutely ZERO problems with and in my, apparently very unusual, experience find their CSRs incredibly helpful and courteous. I know many people find the opposite) and about 2 months later got a $200 early termination bill from Cingular. I called to complain about that, since I was on the old contract (which was expired). I was told I never returned the phone (which I did refuse, as I was told). Was told I made up the refusal, no one would tell me to do that, phones were not sent with valid return addresses and I would have had to pay money to return it, and basically told me I was a liar just trying to get out of my contract. She even told me that the number I called wasn't open the day I said I talked to them [about refusing the phone] and it was impossible I spoke to them. I asked her if she'd like me to fax her a copy of my Verizon bill showing a 20+ minute call to that number at the time I said I called and the Fedex tracking number showing the refusal. She put me on hold for 10 minutes, came back, said the account was credited and closed and I was all set. It was very bizarre. (wow, sorry for the long post! Just like taking any chance to badmouth Cingular that I can.)
Im kinda curious what LTV my two lines are. We shouldnt roam hardly ever, but I do get a discount due to my employer having a large account with them.
Ive never had any problems with their CSRs being rude or unhelpful. they have always been nice and took care of the issue in one call. For the few complicated issues we have had a friend that is one of their call center managers took care of it for us though.
The reason why somethings say \"not for former at&t customers\" is because they're on expired plans. Once you take on a \"new att\" plan you are under the same rules of everyone else. I hate att. don't get me started with some of the bullshit policies we have to enforce. if you know anyone who lives on the coast in louisiana... ask them about the roaming charges on their bill.
Hey ATTREP, do we have any sort of leverage as a customer on an expired plan? I current have a very old combination of promos and plan where I get 1000 anytime minutes for $40 a month, plus free incoming texts and 100 outgoing for $5/mo. I hate how Cingular/new AT&T charges for incoming messages and less minutes.. what crap.
I recently called customer service to inquire about an upgrade. The first guy was helpful, but told me I could get a better price by going to a retail store. Well, of course the retail store said \"nope.\" Then I called customer service once again and got someone not so helpful who said that they changed their upgrade policy since the last time I called and now I can't upgrade until Jan '07, where as before my official upgrade date was Dec '06! Does anyone know how to get around this? When I was with T-Mobile you could upgrade at anytime AND at the promotional price, you just had to extend your contract...which I was willing to do, but now AT&T has really pissed me off. HELP!!
thanks for the question DRDAVIDGE. I'm sorry to say there's no way to keep it if you have a former at&t wireless plan. For what you're paying now the most you could get would be 650 min (450 in the plan plus a max of 200 bonus min) and 200 text (incoming and outgoing). The problem is, as soon as new att equipment is added into the system, we HAVE to pick a new plan and it doesn't give the former at&t wireless ones as an option. It sucks. If you need a new phone the only option you would have if you want to keep your same plan would be to get an unlocked phone. hopefully ths was helpful.
The building in the picture is an old Southwestern Bell central office in Houston, on W. Alabama St. The \"Sheraton logo\" on the building is just the shadow of the former \"Ma Bell\" logo. No filled-in windows, that's just concrete cladding panels.
That being said, I can just picture those horrid Cingular CSR's just reading through this manual and just smirking at me through the phone. So glad I don't have to deal with that anymore.
There is nothing shocking or secret about the AT&T customer service policy. The policy was put together years ago by a platoon of lawyers in order to protect AT&T and the customer (believe it or not.) I know because I have been a Service Representative with AT&T for over 20 years. What I have seen happening in those years is this: what was once a true Service oriented mentality has become a Sales oriented / bottom line mentality. Within the company, Sales and Service are synonyms. One is said to be servicing their customer well by causing that $20 monthly POTS line account to become a $150 - $300 monthly bill by adding \"Bundles\" (which the company claims the customer wants, when in reality they don't), second and third and fourth lines, adding Cellular, Dish Network or U-Verse, DSL, or whatever else they can possibly think of to cause that customer to be paying as much as possible on a monthly basis. But there is still nothing particularly \"wrong\" with that either. AT&T is a publicly traded, for-profit company. The real problem is the people who work there. From the CEO down to the lowly CSR. With few exceptions, their sole motivation is the bottom line. How many DSL's, Dishes or Packaged services got sold that day? AND THEY DONT CARE HOW IT HAPPENS. If the numbers are good, you might get lucky and have a great experience with your CSR on a given day. But if the numbers are bad, and the Division President is coming down on his GM's, then the shit trickles down from the GM to the Sales Managers to the Team Leaders down to the CSR's whose performance numbers may not be that great. Threats are made. Insults hurled. Pressure is brought to bear. Then you hear that saccharine greeting on the other end of your phone...\"Thank you for calling AT&T, how can I help?\" YOU are toast. In many cases, like it or not. I cant tell you how many customers I have talked to...angry customers. YOU will be lied to. YOU will be presented with promotions and gimmicks that either don't exist, or are \"embellishments\" of actual promotions. In many cases, the CSR is acting on orders from his/her Manager, who cant get chewed out again by their Sales manager or the GM again. In other cases, its the CSR's lack of Training that is to blame, as AT&T views training as a drain on the system, and would not do any of it unless the Unions which represent the CSR's and Technicians insisted upon it. But there are still other cases of simple greed. CSR's get a nice commission in addition to their excellent salary. Any method that can be used to boost their bottom line while not getting caught is OK with them. And if you make your numbers reliably, Management has been known to turn a blind eye to questionable, sometimes highly questionable sales practices, in spite of the multitudes of customers, many of whom have been loyal to the company for decades, calling in to the Customer Care Center 3, 4...8 times to have some package removed that they didn't ask for, or were unaware they had alternatives to because the CSR never offered it to them. You donut offer the most affordable plan to the customers; you offer the plan that costs them the most so we can collect $600 a year for a service that costs the company $10 a year to maintain. Multiply that out by the millions of customers AT&T has and what do you get? Then imagine all the other customers...the ones who donut call us. They just assume that we wouldn't steer them wrong and they pay their phone bill for months...years...decades...never realizing they are paying for services they donut need, donut want or donut even know that they have because they donut read their bill. You may be thinking that I'm shilling for the Unions. Far from it. The union spends all of the dues it collects from me and all my \"Brothers and Sisters\" defending and in many cases, getting fired employees who were fired with good reason, back on the job. Why? Because the company has to make a case against the person they want to fire. And if they messed up some minor detail of that case, they will lose their Arbitration hearing to the Union and the CSR who paid for his brand new Escalade with the money he made from lying to you over the phone, gets his job back, in many cases, WITH BACK PAY. In the meantime, the people who go to work everyday and bust ass and remain ethical are lost in the morass. The union is obsessed with this kind of bullshit, while the rest of the employees are forced to work overtime, which is a clear violation of our Union contract. But because the union thinks it ensures job security, they donut put up a fight. But I digress...Ultimately, if AT&T ever ACTUALLY put their own policy into effect, they think they would lose profits.
I am an AT&T customer, and I was on the old AT&T network.
I have been a customer since 2001.
I have a simple 39.99 plan
with an extra 300 bonus minutes added on.
and when I call, AT&T (not Cingular, but the old and new AT&T) always treat me like gold!
I was just given an extra 250 bonus minutes, to match a T-Mobile promotion- giving me 1000 anytime minutes/free nights/weekends for 39.99
I didn't even have to ask for it
I called and said I had heard of a t-mobile promotion
5 minutes later I was talking with someone who was ASKING ME if I'd like them to match that promotion.
no contract to sign
just added on the minutes
they always remind me that I am eligible for a phone upgrade.
I do not have anything else fancy on my plan
and I don't use any type of internet services or roaming.
so appearently LTV is determined by something other than being on the old/new AT&T
and something other than the amount of money your plan costs.
Thank you for this helpful reading. I had for months an issue of incorrect billed international calls with ATT wireless. I followed the tips and mentioned to bring in FCC. Right the way, the guy gave me back the credits - $300!! For months, they refused hear my complaint and refused to let me talk to a manager. ATT wireless sucks. Three wrong bills for the last 6 months. One was with $1600 data usage though I have a monthly unlimited data usage plan!
![\"user-pic\"](\"http://consumerist.com/assets_c/userpics/userpic-3865-100x100.png\")
Thank you...you have no idea the idiocy I'm dealing with in Cingular's \"customer service\" department right now. More about that soon. My favorite is when your call with the tech support person gets disconnected because you have an obsolete phone they never replaced (their networks changed -- Google \"t68i\" and \"obsolete\")...and then that CSR, after extracting every piece of identifying information about you, down to your mother's high school and bra size, fails to call you back. Asshats. A switch on that: Last time, I was out for the day, and calling \"customer service\" from my cell...and the woman...from my cellphone company...called me back at home and left a message there instead! Now I know why she's working at Cingular/ATT and not at NASA!