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\"We're assuming the $5 million is to replace everyone's games (class action) and not just for him.\"
Yeah, right. The lawyers will get all of that money. Everyone else will get a $10 gift certificate at Wal-Mart towards the purchase of a new Xbox 360 game.
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Why is it that when something doesn't work as planned people assume they are entitled to a whole shitload of money? Products replaced, repairs paid for sure. If the problem is as persistent as this one, a full refund is acceptable. But your grief is not worth the court's time or 5 million dollars.
Oh, and there is one item here that IS worth bitching about, Microsoft trying to charge for disc replacement. If this guy's story is true, and the XBox did ratch the CDs (giving the benefit of the doubt that its not his fault, like having the machine on angle, etc), the discs should be replaced free.
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Slapstick said that putting your xbox on its side is a NO-NO, that is not true, xbox has always said that you can play the 360 either on its side or laid down so that means the quality should be the same no matter what, I actually had the disk scratch problem with the Gears of War game and it was a brand new copy and trust me I take care of my games, I just got an even exchange and then had my xbox replaced for the 2nd time, sux 2 be microsoft.
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The part that bothers me is that there was no doubt that the \"red rings of death\" was a wide spread issue - it was all over the forums.
This? This I've never heard of (or had a problem with it myself). Most of the comments I've seen on it is in the form of \"I've never had this problem. Maybe he should stop kicking his Xbox 360 while playing games on it...\"
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@dbeahn: While it's not as common as red rings of death, I've seen it on plenty of forums. I think it's mostly an issue with playing on it's side, maybe the disk wobbles while spinning down? I don't know. I don't know if this is class actionable, but I have seen it around with enough unique cases that make me think misuse isn't the only cause.
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Yeah, I haven't seen this on the 360 before, but I know the Playstation 2 would scratch disks left and right if you played them up on its side. The way the tray holds the game, it just sort of balances, it doesn't snap in like a laptop disk drive. As the disk spins it can bounce and hit against internal parts of the optical drive. Played horizontally, gravity will hold the game in place.
I am guessing this guy will be S.O.L. The PS2 had a tiny little disclaimer saying \"Only use the PS2's vertical stance for storage, not gameplay\" in tiny little letters at the very end of the user manual. Microsoft probably has something similar.
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XBOX 360 Blows. Stop making crappy products M$. Spend time testing it M$ before letting the rest of us beta testing it.
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the only time i've heard of extensive disc scratching is if you move the 360 from the horizontal to the vertical position (or vice versa) while the unit is on & a disc is in it (whether or not it is playing)...i believe this is even addressed in the manual (but i'm not positive if that's where i read it or not).
i just sent my 360 in b/c the disc drawer would not open, but none of my discs are scratched. it's a good possibility that in trying to get the drawer open, joseph alternated the standing position, resulting in the scratches.
after enjoying the ring of death experience on my ex-360, it scratched a nice groove into one of my games which then became unplayable. i put the game in, it began spinning, i heard a rubbing sound, and that was that.
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@Thrust: If someone doesn't sue Microsoft for a bunch of money they don't really have much motivation to replace the discs for free. Don't think of the money as reimbursement for the defective product or compensation for mental anguish; consider it a punitive action to get Microsoft to behave better.
My dad has sent back two 360s before getting one that doesn't seem to scratch the discs, however, he sent them back to the good people at Overstock.com as Microsoft invariably denies that the units are defective.
Only approx. 33% of them blow. The other 77% of 360's are actually a lot of fun. Thats a C+! Way to go Microsoft. Thats...thats O.K.
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This guy probably treats his hardware and software like crap and then gets upset when it fails. I've had my 360 for over a year now and have not experienced any problems what so ever. No red lights, no scratched discs, not a single lockup, or any other problem. I have friends who have launch consoles that haven't had any problems either. Because of this I find it VERY hard to believe that he's been through 3 consoles and continues to experience the same issues.
@alhypo: Oh trust me, I hate Microsoft, and I totally hope they go bankrupt and DIAF. But this kind of stuff happens, often, and with pretty much any kind of product known. Now XBox is a shitty product made at subpar standards. Everyone knows this. Microsoft's motivation to fix this problem would be when you sheep stop returning the machine for a replacement one, and start returning them for a REFUND. But no matter how crappy the machine is, the onlything owed to the consumer EVER is compensation for damages or loss. Microsoft owes you the value of the defective machine, the price paid for whatever games it ruins, and thats it. They don't owe you millions of dollars. Your inability to play Halo 3, or the time spent waiting in line to buy it, only to find it not work, is not worth any compensation.
Now if that piece of shit exploded and killed/maimed someone, THEN you could ask for millions in compensation as a life has immeasurable value (Or so they say).
Doesn't work? Return it, and spend the money on something more reliable.
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Putting any optical disc drive on it's side is a NO-NO, regardless of what the manufacturer says. I've seen real computers, PS2s and 360s do it. Checkout old issues of GamePro or speak to the employees at GameStop and you'll see that it's not just a 360 related issue
From what I've witnessed, discs that end up scratched, without the system being 'bumped' or 'shifted' are usually left in the system as it's powered down. For some odd reason, that is where the fault lies. MS actually places a sticker over the cd tray on new 360s which read 'do not change system orientation' and IIRC they mention that you should not turn off console with disc inside too.
Suing over a scratched disc is really lame, thanks for contributing to our already congested legal system. Good one, all you really had to do was take it to Wallymart and claim you got it as a gift and it came scratched, for a replacement. They'll take anything back, who in turn will make MS take it back at their expense.
FWIW I've had my 360 since January 2006 and I've never had a single scratched disc. Mine is positioned horizontally, because I'm not gullible enough to believe that vertically optically drives have nothing to do with scratching.
@Skyoodpov: Just a hint: If you were taking a math test, and missed 33% of the questions, you would have scored a 67%, which would be an F.
When the XBOX (not 360) came out I purchased mine at Costco getting it for cheaper than Best Buy offered. However a few months later the CD ROM drive wouldn't work anymore. I got a replacement and soon found that it had scratched a semi-circle into my Halo 2 disc.
This time I bought my 360 at Best Buy (although never in my life would I take my computer there) and got the \"Extended Insurance\" including insurance on the games I bought. Its like $2-3 a game if I remember and they dont seem to offer it if you buy on-line, only in the stores.
So far I've had to replace my X360 once, and have not had disc issues.
I would understand charging $2-3 by any company, including DVD movie manufactures, but anything more than that is just ripping off a consumer.
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Oh its definitely a fact that X360's scratch disc, but then again, from what I understand that typically happens only if the unit is moved while the disc is spinning. Something which could be caused by only 2 things: The end user moving the console while it is operational or a natural disaster, the latter of which is unlikely. But in realistic terms, this is old news. 360's do scratch disc. I have an old video for proof of such. Either way, its more money for M$ to lose considering they are shelling out 1 billion to cover 33% of failed units... Damn, that makes the Sony PS2 D.R.E. look light weight...
The disc scratching is a symptom of inferior parts and outdated technology. My car's CD player never skips nor scratch discs, and the car is bouncin quite a bit from all the crap I hit on the road (potholes, train track crossings, the elderly). The XBox ain't even moving let alone being jossled about. MS and Sony use archaic old drive construction to save money, whereas the Wii uses a drive very similar to a car CD player.
Oh, and my PS2 has never scratched a single disc and it's been vertical most of its life.
@slapstick: If running an Xbox 360 on its side is a \"no-no\", maybe Microsoft should stop putting product logos on the unit that are only visible and oriented properly when the unit is sitting on its side, putting little surface-protecting feet on it that are designed to protect those surfaces when it's sitting on its side, mounting it on its side in their in-store demo stations, and showing it running on its side in pretty much every promotional image of the thing they've ever distributed.
This is one of the most annoying problems with the Xbox 360. It happened to me once, with Rainbow Six Vegas, and I had to pay $20 for a new game. Now why is it I could shake my computer or PS2 furiously and the most that may happen is some minor but not destructive scratches, whereas with the Xbox, if you even move it slightly the disc is almost completely unreadable. If MS can get it's act together and fix the Red ring and the POS disc drive, then maybe they can get their PR back to respectable levels.
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@mac-phisto: I heard the same thing, and saw the proof on a disc. It may have flaws, it's a shame, i took my time to buy it for the same reason, but i just love the games of the 360 better.
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OMG total bs!
Microsoft spokesman Jack Evans said, \"Out of the millions of Xbox consoles in use, Microsoft has not received any widespread reports of Xbox 360s scratching discs.\"
There is widespread reports for Gears of War. People have found it common for a disc read error to occur. It is not the refurbished units going through a full cycle, it is a design flaw. For hardware failures, let us just say it doesn't have a good track record.
@alhypo: do a little readup on m$ & how little they care about being sued. the EU was fining them $1 million/day & they didn't care. $5 million for some discs? that's pocket change. they'll send their lawyers, win or lose.
@ZonzoMaster: you don't have to tell me. you see the lineup for august & september? i'm a little peeved i'm not gonna have my box to play some of those games. halo 3 - who cares? there's gonna be a dozen games that i haven't even touched by the time that comes out.
Mac-Phisto: Microsoft cares about being sued now...it seems it is a lot more than $1M/day now. There are more problems than just the scratched discs. Microsoft may have costs in the beginning billions for warranties' coverage claims, for malfunctions. You may read more at (from a week ago):
[www.bloomberg.com]
It seems that Microsoft may have been \"negligent\" as was said above. Wanting to compete with Nintendo and Playstation, the required tests may have been scaled down, and now they must pay.
The mass is speaking out.
Eran
@Eran9000: interesting article - i didn't know m$ sub-contracted the manufacturing of the console. the whole thing's probably running on poison toothpaste & tainted dog food.
it's really chinese dollars though (no pun intended - funny nonetheless). their hardware division may be hemorrhaging money, but they're making it up tenfold in their MGS division & elsewhere. GoW alone sold 4 million copies in less than 6 months - that translates to a quarter billion dollars gross for ONE (albeit a popular one) GAME!
My brother's 360 does this and he's STILL too lazy to do anything about it.
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I work for a [undisclosed] video game store, have since last Christmas, and have seen my fair share of used games and defective 360's. Stating that, I must echo some of the things that were stated above - the same things I tell my customers, day in and day out.
I don't care what all the imagery and advertising says that MS put out: Standing the 360 on its side is just asking for trouble. Not only is that the less stable base, AND optical drives shouldn't be vertical, but see all those holes neatly punched into that flat surface? THOSE ARE VENT HOLES!
Many of the returned 360s that we get in my store, broken with the Red Ring of Death, have been problems with overheating. You lay the thing flat, give it space on all sides for the air to circulate, and you stand a much better chance of beating those 1:3 odds.
Scratched discs? I've seen them, plenty of times - ALL from customers who kept their systems vertical. One little jostle of the console, the entertainment center it sits on, hell just LOOK at the thing crooked, and you run the risk of scratching the disk. Again, common sense - there's nothing to stabilize the game in the tray if its tilted on its thinnest edge.
Datapoint: I waited 9 months to get my 360, because I knew the first systems would be buggy as hell. I have not had a single issue with it.
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didn't microsoft get sued over the first xbox too? ALSO over the disc drive?
why can't they just say, \"you know what, we're building a $500 system here, but lets go the extra mile and use something above the bottom of the parts barrel?\"
If you have an Xbox 360 Console that has scratched your discs and you would like more information about the proposed class action lawsuit filed, please visit the Plaintiff's attorneys' website at www.Xbox360Litigation.com.
In the lawsuit, the Plaintiff is asking the Court to certify a nationwide class and create a fund for all individuals that have had discs damaged by an Xbox 360. The Plaintiff has alleged that the total minimum amount of damages incurred by all of the individuals combined is at least $5,000,000.00. To be clear, the Plaintiff is not alleging that he or any individual member of the class is entitled to that amount of money. The sum recovered by individual class members will be significantly less than the total damages incurred by the proposed class as a whole.
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I've never had any problems with my disks getting scratched. I hear scratching can happen if you put it up on its side, which is a no-no.
Maybe this guy just needs to take better care of his things?